Midwives say women should pay for epidurals

[TheDullWitch]

At least £500 a baby it says here

How will the decent midwives react if they are told to deny women pain relief because their wallets aren't bulging enough?

Well, apparently there are no decent midwives, hm, so it shouldn't be a problem.

I had lovely ones when I was actually having my DSs, both times (postnatal ward was the problem IME).

Bloody hell, maybe they'll end up on a commission scheme.

The world has gone MAD!

kittyfish, you are right about a cast of idiots attending me and my story isn't completely pertinent to the discussion, although it does color my perception of birth experience and midwives in general. But I think the whole point of this thread is that all women should have the option as you did.

only rich people should be able to afford the privalige of choice surely?

Good point, Custy. Yes, poor people should just be grateful they're allowed into the hospital, really.

Seems the RCM feel similarly though

maybe it would become an employment perk?
pension
insurance
epidural
24 days holiday

Snafu (and any other MWs/trainee MWs out there) - what do MWs think about this proposal?

re that link earlier, I had ds at the hospital that woman was at. The labour ward was bursting at the seams the night I was there - I laboured for 6 hours in a side room on the postnatal ward (starting at 4cm dilated) before a room on the labour ward became free. Later on, when I was back on the p/n ward after having ds, another woman was labouring in the side room I'd been in. She was really screaming, but a MW told me she was only 3cm and would be "better off doing this bit at home". So, it's possibly not that uncommon for women to be sent home at that stage if they're having a busy night .

Snafu (and any other MWs/trainee MWs out there) - what do MWs think about this proposal?

re that link earlier, I had ds at the hospital that woman was at. The labour ward was bursting at the seams the night I was there - I laboured for 6 hours in a side room on the postnatal ward (starting at 4cm dilated) before a room on the labour ward became free. Later on, when I was back on the p/n ward after having ds, another woman was labouring in the side room I'd been in. She was really screaming, but a MW told me she was only 3cm and would be "better off doing this bit at home". So, it's possibly not that uncommon for women to be sent home at that stage if they're having a busy night .

The stuff about bonding sounds like utter b*llocks to me. The only views on that I would take seriously would be those of someone who had had at least 10 babies, 5 with and 5 without pain relief and who was absolutely certain that she had "bonded" only with the ones who had caused pain. I didn't find any such correlation myself, I bonded because they were my babies irrespective of the circumstances of the birth.

If you need to bond through pain, what does that say about adopted children and their parents? My SIL was adopted at 4 from foster care. Not even a baby. But we're all pretty close.

I just don't see anything particularly virtous about not having pain relief. I had an epi w/DD1 and nothing w/DD2 (got to hospital at 9cm dilated and one puff of g&a made me feel like I was suffocating).

I felt so angry when I first heard this on the news so here goes. My tuppenceworth.

I had an epidural when I had ds for several reasons. I'd been induced the night before and had spent all night in early labour in quite intense pain. I knew that I was not going to be able to last the whole course without something, either morphine or an epidural or just SOMETHING. I chose the epidural because I also knew that there was a higher than normal chance that I would need an emergency cs and if I already had an epidural in place then I would be conscious for the birth and the whole thing would be much quicker. Yes, I was scared of the pain. Yes, I wimped out. Yes, I'm selfish for having an epidural, but it's MY body and MY choice.

The reason I was so angry with the report when it came out was that where do you end with charging for non-essential healthcare? (I'm thinking cancer patients taking morphine and anti-nausiants, road traffic accident victims with oxygen at the scene when they have to be cut up to get them out of the vehicle, etc, etc, etc!) Should we even allow anyone to have pain relief at all as at the end of the day it's non essential!!

The medical fraternity is very quick to condemn women for having non essential elective Caesarian sections yet they don't seem to have considered some of the reasons why women do. Childbirth is a very scary prospect the first time round and I remember thinking as a young girl 'how do you get babies out of there?' (the scene from Look Who's Talking comes to mind - 'I've squeezed something the size of a melon out of a hole the size of a lemon') Education helps, ante-natal classes discussing different ways of labouring, preparation and generally coping through the whole process is a big part of taking some of the fright and terror out of labour and childbirth. As does knowing the different kinds of pain relief available to you in your area, whether it be a water bath, aromatherapy, birthing balls, reflexology, morphine or an epidural. These things were developed and licenced for this purpose for a reason and to make women pay for epidurals is just wrong. Where do you draw the line at non-essential pain relief??

Rant over!

I find making people pay out for healthcare at the point of service in one of the wealthiest nations on Earth disagreeable full-stop.

Thre's nothing virtuous about not having pain relief. I did it without, but wouldn't have done if I'd not felt able to cope. My body took over, did the job pretty well and I had straightforward labours.

But I'd experienced the same pain before, and worse, with periods. I also had excellent support from DH and my mum for my first labour, and my mum for my second labour. My midwives (three for the first and four for the second because of shift changes and I wasn't left without a midwife during my first labour and only briefly for my second) were fantastic - humorous, supportive and kind.

I am not smug. I'm bloody grateful. I do not believe I'd have coped with it if I'd not had an idea what to expect and I'd not had the relaxed kind people around me that I did.

If I have another baby, I hope I experience the same again, but if I have to have pain relief, so be it. FWIW, I wanted to avoid it because I have reacted really badly to morphine in the past, I am allergic to all plaster so I'd have had a v crusty blistered bleeding back from the epidural (nice) and gas and air made me retch during my first labour.

I've had people sneer at me for not having pain relief btw - I've never offered the information in RL for just that reason.

Tuppence, you weren't selfish!

And you've made me think of something else - if women know they're going to be denied free epidurals, will the elective c-section rate go up? And will women be charged for those too?

Nothing 'wimpy' about taking pain relief, either.

I was begging for it when I went in to have DD2 - but it was too late.

To be honest, next time (if there is one!) I would try going without pain relief for as long as possible, hopefully with a water bath and perhaps even the whole way through. Now that I know what to expect it's not as frightening.

It's the fear of the unknown that's so frightening.

And hunkermunker, just for the record, I don't sneer at you. It's your body and only you know what kind of pain your in and how you're coping with it. What works for one person doesn't necessarily work for another and it goes the same way round too! (HM - I'm trying to say that in a way that defends your right to have the kind of birth that you choose - I hope it comes out like that!)

For the record - I don't sneer at anyone for not having pain relief! I said earlier that Spidermama had every right to be proud of her drug-free deliveries. I'm pleased for any woman who has the birth experience she wants and feels good about it afterwards. I only had gas and air with my second baby, despite shoulder dystocia and a third degree tear. I'm not going to mention my first labour because even I'm getting cheesed off with it now.

I just found the comments about bonding being better where women don't have pain relief to be...well....shit, really.

Sorry - wasn't saying anyone on here had sneered, but people in RL have (when they've specifically asked about the birth as I don't offer the info) - and like I say the bonding/pain thing is arse

I had stitches afterwards and they hurt like buggery - does that count as the right kind of bonding pain??

I also know a woman who didn't have any pain relief and she said she had such a bad childbirth experience that she doesn't want any more children. I had gas and air and an epidural and I actually enjoyed the experience, and I want more. Nuff said.

Yes, getting high on your own hormones isn't to be confused with love for your babe.

My first thought on seeing ds (admittedly, I'd burst into tears when I first heard him cry ) was "god, what a bruiser", followed by "how did dp and I produce something that looks like that??".

This was after 52hrs labour, v little sleep, v little food, em cs.

I've never felt that we haven't "bonded" because of it.

(I'm not sneering am I?? )

CarolinaMoon, I've been avoiding this thread but since you asked so nicely...

Paying for epidurals, bad thing. Insulting and demeaning. Women should labour as they want to - epidural, gas and air, aromatherapy, burning sodding bark and eating the ash if it makes them feel better.

However, issues around evidence regarding increased risk of intervention/instrumental deliveries should not be discounted. Also issues/evidence around beneficial effect of one-to-one support in labour and reducing need for pharmacological pain relief to be taken into account.

Drug-free, not smug. Epidural, not wimpy.

Many other wider issues that RCM should be turning attention to (one mother, one midwife springs to mind, increased caseloading, not shutting birth centres all springs to mind) instead of headline-grabbing misogynistic arsery.

(I have to go and pick up ds now. Don't call me a sadistic torturing bitch whom you wouldn't piss on if she were on fire while I'm gone, please...)

snafu

Can I ask an awkward question? What does snafu stand for? I've just looked on the acronyms list and I can't see it on there.

Sorry for being thick!

I wish someone with your attitude had been there when I had my first baby, snafu I don't think you'd have liked the midwives who "cared" for me much more than I did.