Midwives say women should pay for epidurals

[TheDullWitch]

At least £500 a baby it says here

anougher of my pet hates, dont get me started.......

wasn't aimed at anyone - just saying that I can't see what the problem is. It's not as if they're saying everyone should pay - just those who have no medical reason for an epidural.

on the subject of pain and the fear of it I remember when I was in labour with ds2 it was late at night and the contractions had stopped so I was sent up to sleep in the ward where the pregnant ladies were. The nurse had to do an internal and I was screaming in agony telling her not to. She told me to be quiet because I would scare the other patients. I actually refused to let them do an internal.

I was induced because I had pre-eclampsia, so no complaints from this corner about not being ready. I generally appreciated the 'still being alive' aspect of it. I was already at 3cm but that didn't really seem to help with the natural lead-up.

I see no reason why pain relief measures shouldn't be discussed carefully in all situations - maybe we would have taken a different view if someone had mentioned to dh that prolonged morphine use might compromise his fertility, for example - it should never be the first resort, but it should always be there as the last resort.

I had four knee surgeries before ever giving birth. Had an epi w/one surgery, which didn't work so ended up w/a GA, spinal for two and one under local. Had a loop diathermy w/a local, three wisdom teeth - one w/bone spurs the oral surgeon had to shave off my jawbone - out under local, etc. So, yeah, I thought I was pretty tough.

Bullshit!

Was FLOORED by the pain both times. First time, baby was malpresented - face up and head up by her ear. I don't think there was any way to find out she had her hand wedged up there until she was down in the pelvis and I was fully dilated, but she wasn't descending enough for me to push her out. Thank GOD I'd had an epi!

Second time, no pain relief at all, got to hospital too late for it.

THE most painful f*cking thing I have EVER been thru!

have to say, I was terrified of giving birth the whole time I was pg with ds (second baby). dd's labour was short (5 hours) and very intense and scary (and painful). Am sure having a doula w ds meant I felt more confident re the pain. Though he was a much harder birth - he was 9.3 and his shoulders got stuck whereas dd was 6.7 and out quickly.
my doula said that having a doula is the next-best pain relief after having an epidural.

Expat - have a (probably crap!) theory that people who've had really bad period pain don't think labour is as painful as those who haven't. what say you (and everyone else)?

I'd say if I had a period like that every month I'd want the whole fucking thing ripped out asap.

I did get v bad periods. tbh, labour felt like a REALLY intense horrendous period! nice!

I had stage four endometriosis and labour much easier than periods IME. Breaks between contractions, over in fewer than seven days, no clammy nausea, and a baby at the end of it. Nice.

I was trying to time the contractions w/DD2. Ha! They were all on top of each other b/c I was friggin' 9cm dilated when I got there and had her about 40 mins. after I arrived. I remember being in so much pain en route I rode in the back on all fours - knees on the floor. Starting to think, 'Fuck! I forgot towels! What if I give birth in the footwell?'

DH just started honking the horn wildly as we pulled up, b/c I told him I couldn't stand up anymore.

I don't even remember the midwife's face. She said, 'Can I help you?' I said, 'Yeah, I think I'm in fucking labour!'

watched Desperate Midwives last night, and was blubbing the whole way through. ds kept saying, "You are SO drippy". Just cannot bear to give birth again - so must have been pretty awful....

Expat, that sound pretty similar to my labour w dd - sooo intense and scary and crazy, totally overwhelming. ds's was much calmer (equally as painful) but not as scary.

The head, man. Oh, god! Honestly, when the midwife asked me, in a lovely Edinburgh accent, 'Do you feel like you need to push?' I said, 'I feel like I have to take a giant shit, but I can't b/c something's in the road!' Well, they got my ass up to L&D PDQ, cuz that was apparently baby's head. No shit (pun intended)?!

ah, yes, the huge poo. remember thinking mw was completely crazy not believing me that I'd be fine after a poo!

youy'll love thios, Expat - ds had shoulder dystocia - his head was crowned for about TWELVE contractions.... Ow!

Oh no! I closed my eyes. DH said she came 'firing oot'. I just kept my eyes closed and tried to pretend it was all happening to someone else. I was on all fours, grabbing the back of the bed, so I couldn't see anyway. She was only 6lbs., 9oz, but I swear I'll remember that pain forever! I just remember all my climbing bs kicking in and thinking, 'Don't panic! Don't panic! Get a grip!' I was even shouting it, 'Get a fucking grip!'

pmsl! dd was 6.7. but MUCH scarier labour than huge ds. shows it's a state of mind in some ways.

Yeah, all that climbing 'free your mind, and your ass will follow' shit. Bet a man thought up that line!

If you think labour is like a really bad period then it just goes to show that pain in labour varies from person to person a heck of a lot!

Spidermama, I can't see where I am taking the piss out of you. I think your way is fine FOR YOU, but not FOR ME. You seem to think all women could potentially do it your way and I don't agree. I know scans can not prevent miscarriages, but it can diagnose medical problems and it reassured me when I was scared my baby had died again and I didn't have to walk around for weeks with a dead featus inside me. Of course not. Better ante-natal care and intervention in me eyes are what makes mother and baby so safe in labour these days. I am greatful for it.

Joash, I can pay for an epidural no prob. But why should it matter how much money you have got even in labour? I think women should at least be equal with the same choices in the labour ward!

It's amazing that women on here think that it is ok to dictate whether other women need pain relief. If you are a great earth mother and give birth easily than be grateful. Some of us are not - and some of us have intervention (augmentation, forceps etc) near enough forced on us even though we do not want it. As I said on my posting further down, I thought epidurals are a mad idea - but I still had one. I will be writing to the RCM to plead with them to drop this crazy idea.

As for the cost to the NHS - well we've all paid taxes - and what about the cost of dealin with the mental health problems and the support someone needs because they can't get over the sheer hell they went through. I did not enjoy being in labour for 3 days but it was not hellishly painful and I felt reasonably positive about the experience afterwards. Not sure I would feel that way if I had been in agony and having to fight with the midwives.

Dinny - I disagree with your doula
I think having a doula is better than an epidural as it hasn't got the side effects (like increased risk of instrumental delivery, catheter, back pain, shivers, etc)... and you could even argue that we are pain relief for the dad too

Helly - I completely disagree that those who don't have an epidural have an earth mother attitude or have easy births! You'd be amazed how many do not!

If they did bring this in to save themselves money, I can imagine that the combination of being treated like shit and given no pain relief, would lead to an increase in other complications which would mean more interventions and thus more caesareans.

Saving the NHS precisely nothing, and possibly even raising costs.

I totally agree lockets.
Furthermore I'm astonished by the anger that comes out in these threads against women who've chosen not to have pain relief along with accusations that they're 'dictating' to other women how to manage birth.

I will continue to bang on about my drug free natural homebirths because if I can help ONE woman, who previously didn't believe she had a choice or ability to do this, then it's worth all the flak and hostility I encounter from other women who accuse me of being smug.

If you don't want to give birth this way - fine! Don't be so angry and defensive with people who do.