Midwives say women should pay for epidurals

[TheDullWitch]

At least £500 a baby it says here

Pupuce I had a very painful MC in hospital before I had any live babies. I remember the woman asking and asking then literally begging me, 'LET ME give you something for the pain'. It hadn't occured to me to have anything. I didn't want anything. I guess it's not great for the other patients to have to hear someone in pain so I can understand to an extent. They gave me pethidine. It knocked me out between contractions but they hurt just as much and the pethidine rendered me unable to properly recoup between each contraction. It was horrible. I felt drunk and out of control.

Actually the experience was a godsend in that it informed my decision to stay out of hospital and stay away from sensation concealing drugs and procedures.

I always find it very interesting that some women don't find labour that painful.... I think there is A LOT to be said for the view we have of pain...
it hurts we get pain relief
it hurts we tense up and it hurts more
it hurts we panic....

If we choose to approach it differently (and granted this isn't for everyone) and it doesn't need to be hard, difficult, unbearable....

Still if one wants an epidural and they know the benefits and the risks... let them have ot... I am all for free choice

Right off to bed....

I had a fantastic midwife, who, just at the end of my labour when i felt desperate i asked for the injection pain relief (don't know what its called). She kept saying yes i'll get it for you in a minute.
She told me afterwards that she knew i didn't want it or need it and decided to keep putting me off as she knew baby would be arriving shortly.

I'm glad she did that.

Do you think the pain is caused by panic? I think it is caused by the fact it is bloody painful.

Still, perhaps I am warped by living with someone else dealing with pain, who fortunately isn't subject to society announcing that his pain is 'good'.

Message withdrawn

Don't get me going on pethidine and diamorphine... do people realise it's actually heroin?

Off to bed....... really!

Yes hattie there comes a point in my labours where I think 'I can't do this' and it's generally right at the end before pushing.
She sounds like a great mw.

Yes thanks - my husband has been taking diamorphine for over a year. You think a few doses in labour is harmful? You have no idea, sorry.

I wasn't panicking in labour, I stayed at home till I was fully dilated & had no pain relief.

I was not panicking or tense. But.....IT WAS STILL F*CKING PAINFUL!!!!

So what if diamorphine is heroin - it's a very good analgesic.

tribpot no I do not think the pain is caused by panic but when it hurts we panic and the pain gets worse.
Let me give you a VERY basic piece of info.
In labour you release 2 types of hormones:
endorphins (natural pain killers AND mood enhancers)
oxytocyn (makes you contract - hormone of love)

You panic (you're scared) you release adrenalin. Adrenalin inhibits the release of endorphins and oxytocyn....
An example - you walk into hospital in labour - some women slow down their labour... they get scared and their oxytocyn and endorphin release is inhibitted!
If they go into a pool they relax so much that those 2 hormones work better and speed up labour!

When you see birth in that light.... you really see why many women can labour well, easily, without pain releif and with very happy memories.
Again I am all for free choice - just explaining the pain issue.

tribpot-im truely sorry that your dh is ill, but you really cant bring him/his condition into this debate, it has nothing to do with what we're talking about

Same here pick. I was 'relaxed' but it was still utter agony. My friend said of her labour she didn't realise it was poossible to be in so much pain but still to be alive. I know what she's saying.

That' said though it is different from any other pain and pain isn't the only sensation. Also when it's finished, and between contractions, it has totally gone. (Back labour and other complication excepted of course. )

Sorry to hear about your dh tribpot. It has to be remembered though that the baby also gets whatever drug the mum is having for labour.

Yes I do think diamorphine is bad for babies.... sorry!
And there is a reason they give anti dotes to babies too.

exactly

Good post pupuce. I would say I enjoyed my labours, to an extent, despite the pain and have amazing memories of all four. Some memories still make me wince, others make me well up with joy - one thing's for sure I really was there throughout feeling everything and I wouldn't have it any other way.

This is where I lose friends for sounding 'smug' when really all I want is for other women to know they can choose this path if they want to.

Of course I appreciate that the pain my husband suffers every day is not the same as the pain of labour. Imagine if I could have got him to have my labour pains, cor what a bonus!

I mention it simply because most of us have no experience of pain outside labour. And let's face it, who of us is really rational during that process. I deal with pain every day, which I think gives me an unusual perspective on what it is, what affects it, and especially in the drugs used to deal with it. I don't believe that labour pain is so distinct from normal pain that comments like "panic makes it worse" only apply to labour pain. Yes, panic makes pain worse, but pain is hugely difficult to deal with, and everyone's response to it is different.

A sensitive approach to dealing with it is indicated in all cases, not just "we think labour pain is good so get on with it". Trust me, as someone who has to deal with that attitude from health professionals on a regular basis, it ain't helpful.

Im sorry but pain during labour is completely different than usual pain, the pain during labour is a pain that will come to and end, not like with illness, where you dont know if/when it'll end, with labour, you know that the pain will end, maybe you wont know when, but it wont be painful forvever so taking pain relief during labour is completely different to taking pain relief when your ill IMO

I agree busyA. It's not pathological pain. Nothing has gone wrong. It's like no other pain.

Anaesthetists treat pain in labour. Anaesthetists treat people with chronic pain.

Most people who take pain relief in illness do so knowing the pain will end, e.g. a broken arm. You know it will end. That is probably not much comfort.

The same drugs are being used. Once again, I am not saying it is the same, I am saying there are similarities.

Thats it spidermama, and to tribpot at the end of labour, panic did set into me. I had managed my pain up until then by keeping calm, 'losing myself' on another planet somewhere. At some point, i lost control of that (perhaps the fact the hospital fire alarms went off and dp was locked out side, mw was down the corridor had something to do with that!) and panicked thinking i needed the drugs, mw knew better than that and i am so bloody grateful to her because i really didn't want to be taking unnecessary drugs that had potential to cause harm to the newborn.

Now i am honestly not a hippy 'earth' mother type at all, and i had no plans, did no research about how to cope emotionally with the pain before hand. But something came naturally to me, i cannot describe it, but i did 'zone' out. With help i believe everyone is able to do this to some extent, and this is why i believe this is the sort of discussions a mw should begin with when meeting an expectant mother rather than when would you like your epidural love?

Hattie I would have been panicking just on general principle with the fire alarm going off and all

I'm possibly not allowed to mention it any more, but dh does have various hypnotherapy techniques to deal with pain which are similar to the zoning out and coaching which a good midwife will provide. I've used them myself since the baby was born.

With syntocinon, though, there are no hypnotherapy techniques. There is only 'oh my GOD when is this going to stop?'.

Hmm, and just to add, I think the whole discussion on the whright(sp?) stuff this am did nothing but put the fear of god into expectant mums who were watching and the comments from the two women were unhelpful/scaremongering and biast

"Women having babies in NHS hospitals should pay for epidural injections unless there is a medical need for them, leading midwives said yesterday."

Can't see what the problem with that is myself - same should apply to those who demand c-sections without medical need.

Dont know who that was aimed at but if you read my pp, I didnt say i disagree with pain relief/epidurals, but i do think there should be some more guidance of when they are used, eg I dont disagree with them being used when being induced, as that is not NSL, it is artificially induced and once one intervention is introduced, it has to be followed up and the pain from being artificially put into labour is going to be that much more painful as A) there is no natural lead up B) your body probably isnt ready-which is why it hasnt gone into labour spontanously