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The Conservatives

538 replies

MammaBrussels · 08/06/2012 07:32

I cannot believe someone, even someone in the Conservative Party, would say this. Angry Shock Angry

How can anyone support them?

OP posts:
LineRunner · 10/06/2012 23:08

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

LineRunner · 10/06/2012 23:10

Goading isn't clever, it's pathetic, btw.

claig · 10/06/2012 23:17

Then why do you do it?

MiniTheMinx · 10/06/2012 23:26

Claig, I agree about the fact that some intellectuals have in the past and continue to do so, espouse ideas about limiting growth and consumerism. We must all be sold the idea of a simple life, equal to those around us, maybe not strive for better, look over the fence or climb out of the playpen.

Maybe some of the elite that you speak of share these ideas if they can hold onto the wealth and privilege. Some thinkers have put forward the idea that the elite want to create a slave nation, whilst they live somewhere where they are unseen and untouchable. Some people have suggested that uber wealthy bankers (names not mentioned but I am sure you know) are the architects of this plan. The evidence is certainly very compelling and we know that the very richest family on earth has controlling shares in the Fed, the world bank and IMF (few people want to acknowledge this) they also had control over the bank of england for years. Problem is, it matters not if you understand what is on the back of the dollar bill, all the time commodities have an exchange value linked to money (magical properties of money hmmm) and money is linked to gold (we don't have any, the american larder is bare too) these elites will continue their strangle hold upon all nations and all peoples.

NovackNGood · 10/06/2012 23:32

Can we stick to the politics and leave out the conspiracy theory nonsense about banker families yadda yadda.

claig · 10/06/2012 23:33

Here is an even more detailed analysis

www.policyexchange.org.uk/images/publications/beware%20false%20prophets%20-%20jul%2010.pdf

Mini, we don't know who the real elites behind the curtains are. We don't really knoow who the richest people on the planet are. The names in Forbes and the Sunday Times Rich List aren't the real richest people. They aren't the people that everybody says they are - not the banking family. Nobody knows who they are, because real wealth remains hidden.

claig · 10/06/2012 23:35

Bill Gates etc. aren't the richest either. There is old wealth that goes back centuries and centuries. The Vatican has huge wealth and so do many royalty.

MiniTheMinx · 10/06/2012 23:47

Second the Vatican. Although according to the new this morning the vatican is over run with RadFem nuns Confused

Its not conspiracy, it's bloody history Novak. History and economics. Politics is for pussy twats. Economics effects peoples lives far more than politics and politicians are just puppets and sucker uppers to their paymasters. Wallstreet petitioned for years to deregulate banks, why? why did politicians listen? Have you not been following the news about cosy no 10 dinners, bilderberg meetings, the levenson enquiry, Rupert Murdoch and his plans to revolutionise schools and his friendship with Gove?

NovackNGood · 10/06/2012 23:57

Mini you are obviously one of those who think bilderberg is some secret society depsite the fact that their meetings are no secret to anyone. It's no different that the WEF or any other forum, summit meeting, conferance.

Everyone can see in the members interest that Gove used to get paid by Murdoch. It's not a secret either not that the ex head of NY schools signed a contract to have exams marked by a News international company. That does not make it a conspiracy. The facts are out in the open.

If this is going to become a tin foil oil hat brigade meeting then I'm off.

You appear to have been reading the Weekly World News and thinking it's fact. Was it the Pentaverate and that beady eyed Colonel Saunders with his secret ingredient to control your mind?

claig · 11/06/2012 00:29

If you are going to reduce a serious subject to a level of tin foil hattery like the Pentaverate and Colonel Saunders, then I'm off.

Good night!

breadandbutterfly · 11/06/2012 11:12

What is the Pentaverate?

Sorry, not meaning to take thread off course, but I have no idea what you're talking about. Or the ref to Colonel Saunders. Is he not the KFC guy? Horrid food but am assuming he's not being accused of poisoning the poor deliberately...?

I'm clearly not up on the latest conspiracy theories.

claig · 11/06/2012 11:51

It's a joke. It's in some movie and is supposed to be a secret group of 5 people who run the world and it includes the Queen and Colonel Saunders Smile. It has a suitably impressive Latin name to add weight. Novack is more up on this stuff than any of us.

NovackNGood · 11/06/2012 11:51

It's from the comedy by Mike Myers 'So I married an axe murderer'. The mother character believes, like the conspiracy theorists/tin foil hat brigade do, that the world is controlled by secret cabals.

claig · 11/06/2012 11:52

I think the KFC guy is Colonal Sanders, but I'm not sure. It sounds like Saunders is a joke on that.

claig · 11/06/2012 11:54

Smile. It is the KFC guy from that clip

MiniTheMinx · 11/06/2012 12:36

Noam Chomsky,contrasts conspiracy theory as more or less the opposite of institutional analysis, which focuses mostly on the public, long-term behaviour of publicly known institutions, as recorded in, for example, scholarly documents or mainstream media reports, rather than secretive coalitions of individuals. So if anyone seeks to analyse what we are fed by the mainstream media we can be dismissed as loons in tin hats. Of course nothing happens unless people challenge the structures within society and I am very glad some people do not neatly tick boxes with the way that they think.

Also historically conspiracy theories were seen in a neutral light as simply putting forward an oppositional view. In recent times conspirators have been largely silenced by a move to make all oppositional views seem "coooky" I wonder why?

When a conspiracy is retrospectively analysed and found to be true the emphasis shifts from it being a conspiracy which was proven correct to it being a historical fact. Nixon, watergate, CIA dealing drugs, the CIA training al-Qaeda, many of the events that occurred during the cold war and the reasons behind our involvement in chile through to the assassination of lincoln.

One of the really fundamental characteristics of traditional, right wing, torry thinking seems to be that we must not challenge the status quo (this is a tory philosophy) we must not challenge institutions and structures, dominance and hierarchy. Just look at Gove for a clear picture of how torries like to set society in a backwards aspic mixture of floral pinnies, pith hats and cupcakes. It's a lie and a sham and life in the 50's was never full of singing steel workers, bonnie babies and happy housewives, now that, I might say is also a conspiracy.

Xenia · 11/06/2012 17:16

It's loads of fun and what we're put here for (as well as to breed) to do better than others, make money and succeed. Plenty of women love it. Our species is made like this. Some people have a low IQ or are very sick or are not hard working and they don't do well. We're only here because the fittest survived (along with a bit of being nice to others to ensure we are looked after). Capitalism works very well. In fact in the UK people are better off than they ever were. When I was born most people didn't even have an inside lavatory or central heating something the poor take for granted these days.

ttosca · 11/06/2012 17:50

claig-

That is a warning for those rich people who don't help others and have no pity for others. There is no punishment for being rich or being fortunate, but there is punishment for lack of compassion and aid to others.

Can you back up this interpretation? Jesus regularly told his disciples to get rid of their earthly possessions and to not worry about material things, since God will provide.

As a Bible scholar, ttosca, you will also be aware of the parable of the talents, whuch ended with "wailing and gnashing of teeth" for the person who did not invest money wisely and make it grow, but did nothing with it.

Nice try, but preaching that one should use your money wisely is not quite the same thing as saying it is OK to be rich, when in fact, Jesus consistently berates the rich throughout the Bible.


Matthew 6:24 ESV / 2 helpful votes

?No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money."

ttosca · 11/06/2012 17:51

Xenia-

Capitalism works very well.

Increasingly a minority opinion, thankfully.

claig · 11/06/2012 18:11

'Can you back up this interpretation?'

I can't back it up because I am not a Bible scholar, but Jesus forgives everyone and said we should do so too. Being born into a rich family and inheriting wealth by an accident of birth does not mean that someone will not enter Heaven. Having money is not a crime. It is what you do with that money, how you use the talents that you were given, that determines if you have done good or not.

'You cannot serve God and money'

That is saying do not worship money, do not became greedy, because that will lead you away from God. God is not found in money, and seeking God is the goal, not earning money.

Greed is one of the seven sins, but a sinner is also forgiven.

Sargesaweyes · 11/06/2012 18:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sargesaweyes · 11/06/2012 18:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NicholasTeakozy · 11/06/2012 18:40

Capitalism works very well

For a very few it does. It doesn't for most of us.

In fact people in the UK are better off than they ever were

Would you be so kind as to link to something that shows this? Every study I've seen suggest that since we introduced Reaganomics wages have stagnated for the majority, and have only leapt up for those greedy cunts in charge.

Or are you, like NovackNBrainCell, a bridge dweller being disingenuous?

breadandbutterfly · 11/06/2012 18:47

Xenia - everyone can't, by definition, be put here 'to do better than others' - some people have to do worse or there'd be nobody to do better than.

I certainly don't view it as my purpose on earth to make money or do 'better' than others (whatever that might mean; how do you measure a doctor v a soldier, a teacher v a paramedic, etc, let alone a banker v a midwife (and we all get know who gets paid more - but I know which one I think has the far more meaningful life...).

Do you really judge everything in purely financial terms? That just seems beyond bizarre to me. You can't take it with you...

Tortington · 11/06/2012 18:51

"In fact in the UK people are better off than they ever were."

prove it

that just a lie and the next sentance is a spin on absolute poverty

so poor peopl ehave an inside lavoratory - big deal - that statement means nothing.

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