Controlled Crying - stress levels stay high even when babies have learned to settle themselves.

[Codandchops]

OMG!!!

Even worse is that I could not bear to leave my DS as a baby so used to sit in the room and re-settle him every 5 mins. How shit is that? He could see me for 5 mins at a time not comforting him (even though after every 5 mins I did comfort him).

Have always felt an irrational guilt about DS's autism and wonder if I made things worse .

Need to read the research and look at numbers involved.

Never let either of my children cry. Honeslty I would not take advice from a woman that has NO children and just wants to make £££££'s.

Lequeen, I did read your post. Did you read mine? I didn't suggest that you ignored your daughter during the day - I was pointing out that your argument for CC is ridiculous. Why is a child learning that the world revolves around them and that they are 'speshul' because you respond to them a night but responding to them during the day is ok? Is that just because that's the way you did it?

The research was based on 25 babies.

You cannot draw any conclusions from such a small number.

Apart from.......

we need to do further studies.

wow, this thread has moved on!

With CC and posters saying that babies learn not to cry, can someone please explain it to my dd, she is cutting 4 teeth at the moment and she lets me know

With the lack of sleep that both dd and I had it was either a case off CC or put whiskey in her bottle. I also started off co-sleeping but lasted until she was 7 months as poking me in the eyes, pulling hair, blowing raspberries where more fun then sleeping.

i see all the usual suspects have rocked up as well :) including myself!

ultimately, this is a piece of crap study, on top of a whole bunch of other piece of crap studies.

one interesting thing about it is it did seem to show that CC worked for those 25 babies!

seeker- well put. Babies cry to communicate, what's wrong with responding to that?

becksharp you sound like a lovely mum

I don't think the dispute is so much if it works, but if its cruel / harmful. For babies old enough to understand the concept (consensus seems to be 6m+) and if they are crying just because they don't want it to be bedtime then it seems to me that with a minimal amount of fuss you can get them on track for a good sleeping pattern, a lack of which IS detrimental to all concerned. Obviously if they are ill, teething or scared or something then that is a different matter. It took a little experimentation with my two but it became obvious that actually, us holding them, trying to soothe them, etc was just provoking more screaming and DD in particular would try and twist out of our arms. A few minutes left in her cot (usually less than one minute actually) and she would stop and settle herself.

i don't have any problem with other people doing what they want with their babies - sleeping or non sleeping...that's all within the realm of parental choice. Sympathy is always appropriate for those with non-sleepers....

i do object to the notion that on the basis of crap evidence like that, it is ok to guilt trip parents out of doing what they can to get a good nights sleep.

Never did it with mine. Used to cosleep with ds1 and bfeed to sleep. He has been in own bed since around 2. Ds2 bfed to sleep till 3y10m. Now he goes to sleep without. Still cosleeps. Dd 7 months bfeeds to sleep and cosleep/in cot next to bed. How we do it isn't for everyone but works for us. Literally never had sleep issues. We do what we feel
Is right for ours as other parents do so with their own kids

I couldn't do controlled crying with my son because every time he got upset he vomited. The Baby Whisperer (Tracey Hogg - now deceased unfortunately)has a method which is bloody hard work to start with but I succeeded. This involved going to the child ever time he whimpered, picking up or patting or stroking him for reassurance and then going. It might need to be done more than 100 times the first night and the second, but the child then learns that there is always someone there. I loved this because, to me, it felt more right that the child felt 'reassured' rather than 'abandoned'. However, others swear by cc - personal choice and what you can live with in the process...

Didn't do CC because I didn't have to, DS - now 22m - was a good sleeper. But I wouldn't hesitate. Take today: I'm 26w pregnant, hot, bothered and haven't slept properly in days. DH has been away so I had DS on my own (which I normally love), but I snapped at him a billion times and once slammed my hand against the wall behind him because he wouldn't let me change his nappy and was getting poo everywhere. I bet you anything that having an exhausted, stressed mum, who shouts and slams at walls is a lot more stressful for DS than letting him cry for a few minutes. And yes, I feel terrible for the way I behaved and I apologised to him.

I tried CC when my son was over a year even though I felt it was cruel. I felt bullied in to doing it by my partner, health visitor a family. It left my son traumatised, he pretty much followed me around crying for about a week after and would get hysterical if I left his side. He had been confident and happy to play alone beforehand. I think it really depends on your child, some will have a little whinge and be asleep in 10-20 minutes, I do not think this is cruel. But if CC is taking over half an hour and your child is crying hysterically the I do think it is cruel, unfortunately everyone just told me it's normal.

This might have more research

www.isisonline.org.uk/how_babies_sleep/sleep_training/considerations/

Haven't read the whole of the thread, but another one here, who has never let DCs cry to sleep and not knackered and stressed out by lack of sleep either. CC or CIO is cruel in my eyes. Me or DH would never leave our DCs crying. We feel like we would be letting them down massively. They are only wanting a cuddle or a reassurance from the parents that they know love them. I just can't get my head around CIO or CC, I just can't. The baby/toddler years last for such a short time in the bigger picture, sleep less nights or lack of sleep won't last for ever, and we find solutions to deal with them, which doesn't involve making small children cry.

I have a friend at the moment who I am seriously worried about. Her second child is 5 months, doesn't nap for more than 20 minutes all day long, will only feed to sleep and is waking 3-4 times a night. She has no family support and only a few mum friends, things are rocky with her husband. Since this sleeping malarkey began, she is increasingly negative about both her children and feels trapped and out of control. Everything seems bleak. She has had mastitis several times but has had to continue being there 24-7 for both her children with limited support.

She won't do cc because she thinks it's cruel but I think it's cruel she is putting herself under such strain and I feel, as do other friends of hers, that she is pushing herself to the limit and will crack if it doesn't change soon.

I don't think it's good for her little girl that she is not getting any naps in the daytime, either... and particularly not good that she is dealing with a stressed, irritable mother.

I think that this is tipping her into PND. Sadly there's quite a LOT of research that maternal mental ill-health impacts on child development, a lot more than there is about cc.

In scenarios like this, cc seems a very sensible option.

My son has slept through the night maybe twice in 2.6 years. We breastfeed and co-sleep, and he has never been left to cry. If he were in another room I may have shot myself by now, but he latches on & goes back to sleep quickly.

"I just can't get my head around CIO or CC, I just can't. The baby/toddler years last for such a short time in the bigger picture, sleep less nights or lack of sleep won't last for ever, and we find solutions to deal with them, which doesn't involve making small children cry."

And sometimes, unfortunately, the impact of maternal mental health does last a long time. It is a major predictor of cognitive development at age 6 and can have lifelong ramifications for some children.

I never found waking at night problematic and it didn't make me knackered or stressed, and it went on for nearly 18 months. However, that doesn't mean it's okay for a woman on the verge of a breakdown to push herself through because "sleepless nights or lack of sleep won't last forever". Maternal mental health is important and not everyone can cope with prolonged lack of sleep.

There are also a variety of mental health conditions that are exacerbated or triggered by lack of sleep. They really have much graver consequences than a few nights cc for everyone in the family.

stress is bad

but noone properly compaires the short term stress of CCing to the long term stress of not doing CCing if you are a family for which nothing else is working

I wrote down how long dd slept for, it worked out she slept for 6 hours every 24.

How on earth is anyone suppose to manage on 6 hours sleep for months?

Sorry that was suppose to be 6 hrs broken sleep, the longest she would slep would be an hour

Interview, could you offer her some constructive solutions that she may be happy with? Can she take the baby out for a drive/a walk in the pram during the day so he sleeps? Can she co-sleep or have a mattress in his room? If she's not happy about CC there are other solutions. CC or no sleep aren't the only options.

But this is bollox*. The whole point of the article is this is an initial study about stress levels short-term and they now need to do another study to see if it has a meaningful long-term impact. This study is only measuring cortisol in the first 5 days of CC. And yes, it's entirely reasonable to think that a baby who is used to falling asleep on a person is still a bit edgy about going to sleep on their own on day 5. 5 days is no time at all. The real question is does it have any long-term effects - and given that a lot of people only resort to CC after disturbed sleep for everyone which we know has long-term effects anyway, then they would have to be pretty pronounced.

*OK, I know, I know. Daily Fail etc etc. But even for the DF, this is bollox.

OK, So to me CC is leaving your at bedtime to cry for a few minutes when he is overtired to go to sleep when all else has failed. it's not ignoring your baby when he cries in the night or at any other time. Some folk seem to think that cc means leaving your baby to cry full stop. Would love to know what Bubbley thinks CC actually involves

sorry bumbley

Choceyes, those of us who have done CC haven't done it lightly; I assume that for others, like me, it's a last resort. Neither of my DCs have been particularly 'good' sleepers (i.e. not the sort of babies who would sleep through before 9mo, despite lots of co-sleeping) With both babies I have had to go back to my very stressful, long-hours job before they were sleeping through which is just horrendous for me and also for everyone else in the family as I am tired and irritable when I get home.

Sleepless nights and lack of sleep might not last forever but I am a teacher and therefore other people's DCs rely on me to be effective at my job every single day. Not to mention that the people I share the road with need me to be awake at the wheel!

I might add that, like someone up-thread, if I stay with DD to settle her then it takes between 1 and 2 hours. If I leave her to get on with it herself then she'll grizzle for ten minutes. The study is a bag 'o' shite imo.

ffs choceyes you need to read the thread. And stop with the smugness