Benefit hatred is out of control.

[carernotasaint]

www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/owen-jones-hatred-of-those-on-benefits-is-dangerously-out-of-control-7763793.html

only atypical cases like very large families

Yes, living in large privately rented homes paying vast sums of rent [housing ben] to private landlords.

The "free car? no it's paid for by the claimant" argument is bullshit. It's paid for the claimant out of benefits. Therefore it's free. What difference does it make whether the money goes straight to the car dealer or to the person in between? It's the same as the argument that benefit claimants don't get that much in benefits because housing benefit goes straight to the landlord. Guess what? People that work have to pay rent as well. What difference does it make whether it goes into their bank account and then to the landlord?

JosephineCD proves the point
there is hatred a jealousy
read her post.
you can not put DLA ro one side as the government are treating DLA as an in work benefit(even though it sin't)

DLA is an in-work benefit, 2shoes.

I think she meant out of work not in work.

Xenia i dont see why we should leave disability benefits to one side in this discussion just because the truth is uncomfortable for some and certain disabilists in our society dont like being proved wrong. Why should we leave it to one side when it is disabled people and their carers and families experiencing this discrimination and prejudice.
Josephine CD proves this point beyond all doubt.
As for the "free car" Josephine, Have you ever heard the saying "Be careful what you wish for!

Xenia i dont see why we should leave disability benefits to one side in this discussion just because the truth is uncomfortable for some and certain disabilists in our society dont like being proved wrong. Why should we leave it to one side when it is disabled people and their carers and families experiencing this discrimination and prejudice.
Josephine CD proves this point beyond all doubt.
As for the "free car" Josephine, Have you ever heard the saying "Be careful what you wish for!

So you are envious then Josephjne - or you wouldn't be arguing about the specifics.

Envious that your children are not disabled are you?
Envious that you are not disabled?

Hopefully if they or you were then you'd get a "free car" too - IF the DLA give you higher rate mobility - which it appears they will stop doing if you have a wheelchair. Caring eh?

My son is disabled and I get "free money" (but not a free car) in the form of benefits which enable me to meet his complex needs in a way that MIGHT make him a productive member of society as an adult - if this contemptuous bunch of bastards in Govt haven't decided to take away any benefits which might help him.

AND despite the fact that I am up half the night with him it doesn't count for higher rate care because "if he falls asleep at 2am that is when the house is considered to have settled for the night" even though I think it begins at 10pm when I try to go to bed. So I will lose my Carers Allowanced but will raise two fingers at this uncaring Govt and society and do what I have to do to meet my son's needs. I certainly will NOT be going into work just to appease this fucking shower in Govt who frankly don't give a shit.

Interesting that before the election DC was photographed with his son Ivan - take a look at the pictures - he looks entirely at the camera andf not once at his child. Uncaring and unfeeling bastard who used the media to project one image while hiding his true nature. Yes I hare the fucker.

So josephine when you pay for something for your child using your Child Benefit do you see it the same way as you stated above for disabled people or do you see CB as state money. What really galls me in these discussions is the blatent hypocrisy of this.

Personally I think anyone who begrudges a disabled person something which gives them the ability to get out and about has to be fairly bitter and twisted about their lot in life. Thankfully my austistic child has more compassion in his small finger than people like that.

I think Josephine you illustrate the OP perfectly. Would you rather disabled people stayed at home?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1476260-Odd-find-secret-DLA-allowance

Ive linked the above thread into this discussion because i find it suspicious.
A. Because of the timing.
B. Because no one would be awarded high rate care just like that.

Yeah I thought that was an odd one too . Be interesting to see the outcome. I can't get higher rate care for DS even though he needs night time supervision. It's really hard to meet the criteria for it.

'Disability and the return of blame culture -
From newspaper columnists, to politicians, to nightclub owners, myths and distortions are spreading' .- New Statesman
www.newstatesman.com/blogs/lifestyle/2012/05/disability-and-return-blame-culture

"An open letter to the Telegraph: get your DLA facts straight"
'Dear Daily Telegraph,

You had the scoop of the decade with MPs expenses. You are clearly a paper that employs excellent journalists with great research skills. It is a shame these skills weren't utilised when you interviewed Ian Duncan Smith yesterday about the changes to DLA. Here are the basic mistakes in your article;............' - Diary of an NHS buff [blog]
nhsbuff.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/open-letter-to-telegraph-get-your-dla.html

There is nothing suspicious about that thread, folks. The OP comes across as completely genuine in all her posts on it, not to mention that she has a very mundane and longstanding posting history. She is for real, I am quite sure of it.

Sunnywithachanceofshowers Sun 20-May-12 15:54:30
DLA is an in-work benefit, 2shoes.

I know dam typo, I meant the government are treating it as an out of work benefit, which it isn't

Codandchops with you there, he is a cold hearted bastard

It's impossible to have a reasonable argument about benefits because anyone that even questions it is called a "nazi" who "hates the unemployed/disabled". So we just keep going until we're in so much debt that no-one will even lend to us anymore, at which point the benefits system collapses and people start starving. It's not good at all.

JCD you are right - no chance of a reasoned debate, Gordon Brown has seen to that, by conning people into thinking there is a bottomless pit of 'Government' money, and a magic porridge pot full of money to fund it all.

...and lets not forget the Opposition parties who promised to match that spending pound for pound.....and presumably who would have been doing the same as GB in the boom years.

Personally I think the attacks on disability benifits are dispicable and IDS is an arrogant tosser who does not care a fig about who falls in the wake of his disability benefit reforms. Add to that a well orchestrated campaign of Tory propaganda fed to the media and we are seeing abuse and attacks on the disabled increasing by the day - because they is all scroungers doncha know.

I know of at least one case where a woman allocated a disabled parking space in a block of flats who is being followed round by a neighbour with a camera.....well if it's in the Daily Mail it must be true. That's the sort of thing this propganda is causing - an encouragement to spy on your neighbour, the bloke up the road, the woman who drops her kids off at school......all getting disability payments for one reason or another and at varying rates and all now being viewed with suspicion by those who think they might just be getting something for nothing. Nice.

And the car payments...I have a friend whose daughter is so disabled she cannot care for herself in any way - she is utterly reliant on her caregivers for food, elimination, turning etc etc etc. My friend cannot afford a car but the disability payment her daughter receives (Higher Rate Mobility) allows her to lease a car (in other words it aint hers) but she has to pay for all adaptations to the vehicle, a down payment etc etc. Without it she would not be able to leave the house and it makes me so angry that people bicker and bitch about this - they would begrudge her that little bit of freedom, because without doubt if she placed her daughter in care, the cost to the tax payer would be far far higher than the Mobility payment she gets. This is something I think people forget.

We do need to have a national conversation about this issue.

The problem I think really boils down to the very old long standing conversation I alluded to earlier that has been going on for well over a century now. There is no right answer to the question of what is fair in terms of minimum wage or benefits.

Someone on the Sky newspaer review the other day put it well. Benefits have to move away from 'want' to 'need'. I am afraid the notion of relative poverty has to challengable and the left of politics will cling to that because it is at the root of all wealth redistribution politics and their client state. Those on the right will attack benefits and the minimum wage without mercy because it seeks to reduce people to marketable units of production and anyone who does not work is therefore worthless.

Society needs to regain the right to have a conversation about what the majority regard as fair.

my DF was paralsyed so i have some insight into disability but because i think the current system is: open to fraud, too expensive, encourages dependancy, i have been told i dont know what i am talking about, am vile etc. etc.

its funny how the 'caring generious posters' arent when you hold a different opinion.

NB: i want a system that looks after the most disabled better but helps people with conditions that other people can and do work with less. and carers need more support.

but speaking about the wider benefits system, lots of people sat on their bottoms when the economy was booming and let the rest of us do the work for them.

I agree morebeta but it would help if people knew what people really get instead of the govt misleading people into thinking they are all on 26K. People don't always realise the hidden costs of disability or the hidden cost of being poor.