Child guru says nurseries harm small children

[flashingnose]

oh dear

are you joking, beartime?

Um... the article says 8am to 6pm; somewhere in this thread that has been changed (accidentally I'm sure) to 6am to 8pm. My nursery doesn't even open those hours, nor is DS even awake 6am-8pm! I'm sure people who don't see their child 6am-8pm are very rare indeed.

As for the article - I think it's a vast oversimplification. Aren't we really talking about good and bad childcare? It's all very well looking at nurseries, seeing some bad nurseries and some bored/miserable, unattended-to babies, and finding that a percentge of kids who went to nursery grow up aggressive and whatnot. But where is the evidence for what happens to kids who aren't in nursery? A percentage of them will be receiving bad, neglectful or negative parenting at home. Many more will most certainly not be getting 1-1 care, even if it is great care from their very own mum, because many people have 2 or 3 small children and 3-1 is the ratio they get in nursery anyway.

We haven't always had nurseries but we've sure as hell always had aggressive, unpleasant people. Some of that has always been down to being raised badly - and being raised badly or well can happen whoever is doing the caring.

As for me, I think I'm a good mum and give my DS piles of love and attention when I'm at home with him. But I also leave him playing on his own a lot - supervised, but not being played with - while I stuff the washing machine, get the lunch ready, tidy up, change the beds, blah blah blah. And he gets pushed round Tesco (or Gap if he's lucky!) getting minimal attention from me (more from old ladies ) while I do the shopping. At nursery, as far as I can see, he gets constant, loving, caring play and attention from professionals who aren't trying to do anything else at the same time. He has 2 keyworkers so if one is off he has the other. So far, he loves it and if anything he comes home overexcited and very tired, far from understimulated.

There are good and bad parents, good and bad nannies, good and bad nurseries, childminders, relatives who care for kids, etc etc etc. I bet the reality is a happy, well-socialised child results from good care wherever that care comes from.

No I'm not joking

The problem is that not all nurseries are good - and some are far from it. Common sense says that babies and young children should not really be woken at half six, fed breakfast while they are still half asleep and put in a car to be at nursery for 8am - then picked up at 6pm, tired and hungry, to be diven home, fed at 6.45pm, and into bed for 7.30. That is common sense, but then there are mortgages and bills to pay, aren't there?

I agree that that experience, 5 days a week, would be horrible for a small baby. And I agree the solution is better tax breaks and policies so parents can get by while working less.

But I do think saying "nurseries = bad, being with mum at home = good" is an oversimplification. And possibly one fuelled by sexism and an underlying desire to punish women and keep them out of the workplace - if not on Biddulph's part, then on the part of some of the media that pick up on thinbgs like this.

well if I believed the article, then I am the worst possible mum

I work part-time AND since Nov am a single mum

NO HOPE for my kids.....anyone want to come & see them?

both are friendly, compassionate, polite, well rounded children

this is bound to be emotive - you are either a SAHM and agree or you work & so not going to say its true

maybe working part time is happy balance?

Agree with p/t probably being best (if you can get it). As my wise old(ish) mother says - everything in moderation.

AND Beartime, you are lucky with your husband

mine wanted me to go back to work FULL time - I had to fight for 3 days
he said children thrived at nursery & I couldnt teach them/treat them any better

Sooo some mothers dont have a choice cos of other reasons....

as it is, said husband has now left us (affair) and if I didnt have a job, I would lose our house....

AND the other morning (cos of my marital situation) I didnt want to get out of bed to go to work until my DS (nrly 4) said:-

"dont you want to see your friends at work mummy? I want to see my friends at nursery and work wont come to you because its a building...so you better get out of bed"

does that sound like a neglected / cant relate to others child?

sorry {blush] but have a SAHM who is also Competitive mum "my DD can do this that & the other"....yes and also doesnt eat much food, and plays up in public...BUT SAHM still feels she's better than me....or feels sorry for me having to work

well sais snow.....and mistressmigins

I mean well said

FGS

OK I am due to go back to work at the beginning of April DS will be just about 5 months old, I am going back full time however DH is swapping all his shifts at work to the really shitty shifts so that we can both work full time but only put DS in with the childminder for approx 20 hours a week (over 3 days). This is fantastic and will strike the happy medium that I was looking for.
However if DH wants to change his job then ds will have to go full time to the childminder, this is not ideal and not something I decide upon lightly but we moved 250 miles to give ds a better surrounding and up bringing and because of that our living expenses mean we both have to work.

I do hope that dh doesn't want to change his job untill ds is older even though it would mean a lot more money for us.

what is the FGS for?

Oh yeah and I just wanted to say that I think it is very sad when intelligent grown women buy into what a supposed expert says about children.

Everytime something is printed by an "expert" we all take it to heart. WE are the only experts in our children and you all need to remember that.

In the next few months there will be an article critisising sahm and they will be up in arms and then it will be the mums who go out to work and again they will be angry.

oh yes if they need two incomes to survive make one get a night/weekend/evening job - does wonders for the family life you know...........

Re holidays abroad - they are at the top of my priorities. I want my children to see their grandparents and cousins. So we travel abroad at least 3-4 times a year.

BAM

My partner and I worked opposite shifts for 18 months so I wouldn't have to put ds in my local nursery. I took him for a try out day and was horrified (although I don't think it is typical of nurseries, just a bad one)

It did impact upon our family life, but not as much as me not working at all would have done, because then we would have had to split up so I could claim benefits, and dp would have had to move out. We really were that poor, on his income alone we would have been better off on benefits.

But no way was I putting my son into that nursery.

we've done it for nearly 2 and a half years now but i agree it's far from ideal.

I don't get upset by it locketts I have the happy medium, if dh changes his job then I will be a little sad and may have to rethink the situation but I would never let someone elses lecture me on childcare.

Just be glad you folks don't live in America, where a person is expected to work at least 40 hours a week and often far longer. Most people need two incomes to get by, too.

And maternity leave, paid for months and months? Yah, right!

I knew plenty of people who had to put their kids in 'daycare' from the age of 3 - 6 weeks. I kid you not!

I temped in this place where the gal was getting ONE MONTH leave. She had a layabout partner who was going to look after their daughter during the day, but she was going to have to come into work w/a one-month old at home - and we all know what they're like at night at that age.

well when on partner works 1.30-9pm so gets in after the children are in bed. The other one works nights - 9.45-7am and is asleep in the mornings - it only leaves the weekends to have all 4 four family members together. If the DP doing nights has their weekend on at work then it could be nearly 2 weeks before they all spend more than 1hr together.

I know of 3 marriages that have broken up in the last year because the shifts that they were working impacted so badly on their family life the marriages broken down.

Cristina - there's always emails, photos and telephones you know. my FIL hasn't seen our 2 DS's yet 'in the flesh' so to speak - and they're 5 and 2yrs old

and colditz - that was one nursery - there are a LOT of nurseries in this country - at least there were last time I checked.