Child guru says nurseries harm small children

[flashingnose]

oh dear

DH and I look after each other and lavish each other with gifts. We both need love and nurturing. We have different skills and strengths, some gender-related and others not. We are equals and have the utmost respect and admiration for each other. There is no "captain" in our team. It would be a vile and destructive influence in our marriage and in our family for one of us to feel that we were somehow superior or senior to the other. I think it reflects poor psychological health in a woman to need that sort of wonky outdated sub-dom relationship. And I don't think most men want it either.

How can a book be offensive to me? A book which details a belief system and a code for living which is irrevocably ingrained in the cultural environment in which I live? I think it would ignorant and irresponsible not to have an opinion on the Bible, as a citizen of Western Europe and the mother of two children. And books (particularly works of religious authority such as the Bible) have immense power and can be highly offensive or deeply precious depending on one's perspective. But all of this is painfully obvious. Don't be silly, QoQ.

I thought you'd gone, QoQ [puzzled emoticon]?

but Uwila that's because people love to take the bits that sound bad about it without understanding what it says.

Submission to a husband does not mean a woman is to be a slave in bondage to that man, but rather it is to be a mutual submission in love. The above scripture says we are to submit unto each other. Submission means to yield or "to set yourself under." From this definition we see we are to yield to one another instead of demanding our own way. Love should be the rule in our homes,

Like Christ, the Christian husband is to lead the way in demonstrating a humble commitment to God's will rather than insisting on his own will.

Jesus' authority was valid because he did "not seek my own will, but the will of him who sent" him. (John 5:30) He also explained that he was willing to "lay down his life for the sheep." (John 10:15) In the same way, the Christian husband is to lead the way in demonstrating a humble commitment to God's will rather than insisting on his own will. He should take the initiative to practice sacrificial service to meet his wife's needs, even at his own personal expense. Such husbands are usually able to secure their wives' trust and respect.

I'm suprised the "submit to your husbands" verse hasn't come up yet TBH .

not trying to be rude at all, just genuinely puzzled, how can you believe in both creationism and evolution QofQ? That's got my brain in a muddle i must say!
i just stick to what Christ said. Luckily i don't have any problems with any of that. The rest is definitely a bit of a product of a rather old, fiercely hierarchical, oppressively patriarchal society. So lots of Christians accuse me of not being Christian as a result. Oh well.

There is no "captain" in our team. It would be a vile and destructive influence in our marriage and in our family for one of us to feel that we were somehow superior or senior to the other. I think it reflects poor psychological health in a woman to need that sort of wonky outdated sub-dom relationship.

Can anywhere run succesfully without someone having the absolutely final say??? I don't think it can, someone, at somepoint has to be able to draw a line under it. Doesn't mean they won't listen to your views, and perhaps even implement them, but I strongly belief a 'team' with no captain is like a ship at sea without sails (in the days before engines of course ).

I disagree strongly with your comment about physcological health - infact the complete opposite - after having DS2 I had PND - and with the help of DH (and LGJ on here who nagged me into seeing the dr. LOL) I've come throught the other side a stronger and happy person that I was before.

What was that odd post about having children by IVF and getting married next year all about QoQ? On the thread where you said you were leaving? I saw it today, and it seemed very much at odds with your beliefs. It was under your "bangersandmash" name.

Mutual submission yes i agree with that QofQ. Not that it happens much in our house!

ruty - only bits of evolution - I don't believe we used to be monkey's but I do believe that indivudal species have evolved from how they were created.

Lets face it, whether we're Christians, Pagans, Atheists, Muslims, Sikhs and whatevers I think we all agree that 1000's of years ago we used to run around with practically no clothes on and live in caves (or something along those lines LOL). We've 'evolved' and learned more skills - and now have elaborate clothes, and nice houses to live in, not to mention the 'discovery' of electricity which enables us to have this debate (which once again is keeping me from cooking my children's dinner - what was this thread about again LOL).

But the problem with your argument QoQ is that many marriages, including mine, work perfectly without anyone having the automatic final say on the basis of gender. We listen to each other in each individual situation, you see, and reach a compromise on the basis of mutual trust and respect for one another's differing qualities and the strengths and experiences we bring to the relationship. It works very well

And as to the point about psychological health - I maintain that a woman who needs to feel intrinsically inferior to her husband is psychologically unhealthy. But in many cases people who are psychologically unhealthy do not feel uncomfortable or unwell as long as their bizarre needs are being met. You cannot feel your chains until you move

greensleeves - that was explained last night - and yes I am slightly embarassed that I was tipsy at that time in the evening

Hi QOQ I knew you couldn't stay away for long!!

What a suprise we are back to religion!! Haven't you learn't your lesson

Anyway I am going to agree and disagree with you I'm afraid, men and women are not created equal, BUT they have their own strengths. Yes my DH is stronger than me in a fist fight, but emotionally?? No I am the stronger one there. However I am sure there are men that I could wup the arse off (not my kinda men, but there are some ) I believe in equal opportunities for everyone, but surely it is best to play to the strengths of the individual.

Please don't get upset by the piss taking, It wasn't so much at you, rather than beartime, who (even you will admit) has strongly held views that seem a little 'traditional' for some on here. I know all discussions on religion are painful to you, becuase of the lack of understanding/missunderstanding on both sides. Personally I think some of your ideas/views are strong and are so far apart from mine that it shocks me. However I know you are a good person who wants to try to explain your views/religion.

Anyway back to the OP. My kids have had the 2nd best and worst of starts. DD1 went to nursey from 6 months - full time, 8am - 6pm. I worked full time, and there was NO QUESTION of me giving up work. I refuse to feel guilty for working, I don't do it for myself TBH I do it so we don't have to go on benefits, so my DH (yes BEARTIME) my DH can follow his dream to be an actor. What should we do? In your world I should give up a well paid job, and force my DH out to work (that's his job to look after me) and thus sink him further and further into depression. Rather than giving him the opportunity to work as an actor and thus having a happy home.

With DD2 we had a nanny, and yes I preferred that. But we were lucky. My parents helped pay for the nanny so my wages could still pay the bills, and DH could try to get work.

At the moment, now the kids are older DH is actually a SAHD most f the time, but works whenever he can, I still HAVE to work full time. I guess I could give up work, we could live off his wages and benefits, but why should we?

You know what actually damaged DD1, it was being born at 27 weeks, not from being in a nursery. No I suppose I should be feeling bad becuase I didn't manage to hold onto her for longer???

Come off it QoQ. Alcohol doesn't make people do and say things which are totally out of character and portray a lifestyle and identity which goes against their every belief. The spelling and typing were very accurate. Why did you really do it?

Apes QoQ not monkeys!
Crunchie, it seems our [mothers] lot to feel bad whatever choice we make, i can't understand why we all go around criticizing other people's choices tho - we all do our best, isn't life hard enough already? [not directing this at anyone in particular].

greensleeves - you must have an entirely unique relationship if All subjects and discussions can be worked out with compromise - I don't think constant comprosmising does anyone any good.

FWIW I work with elderly people - and all of them (both men and woman) say the way that their marraiges lasted so long was because someone (not always the man - infact in my grandparents relationship my gran was the 'dominant' one) had the final say where compromise couldn't be found.

I'm not at all inferior to my husband - not in the slightest. I have my own job, am in control of my own money, make my own choices about what I do where I go and what I eat etc etc. He listens to what I say, and asks my opinion on matters and frequently takes my advice too. But at the end of the day someone has to be a team leader - and it's him.

At work when there's two of us on nights one is the shift 'leader' - but we work together as a team, with neither being superior to the other. It can, and does, work without anyone's physcological health being damaged.

Crunchie - you've lost me - dont' think you said anything that got me going.........did you??? LOL.

"Anyway I am going to agree and disagree with you I'm afraid, men and women are not created equal,"

Agree

" BUT they have their own strengths"

Agree

"surely it is best to play to the strengths of the individual. "

Agree, but also think the man should have absolutely final say (but not without talking with the wife otherwise he's not doing it 'biblically').

Some translations of that Genesis bit the beartime quoted use the word 'companion' and even with "helper" - is that not what relationships are all about?? Helping each other?

greensleeves - perhaps you'd better look back at some of my older posts from last year - plenty of places where I've typed very acurately with good spelling (well as good as mine can be) while complete sozzled.

apes, monkeys, gorillas - whales, whatever

And Crunchie no I never learn my lessons LOL.

MUST go and put the chicken int he oven

QoQ well you've hit the nail on the head anout the man having the last word!! As far as I am concerned, I am infinatly better at deciding what is best for me and my family, that it would be laughable for DH to have the final word Also I was referring (subtly) to some of the stuff you wrote on the last thread that caused you to get so upset. Those points were so far removed form mine I don't want to actually be seen to agree with you

Yes, I think most marriages are unique (unless people are following some bizarre outdated script written by misogynists thousands of years ago, of course). DH and I like and understand the way each other's minds work and find negotiating decisions a natural way to run our family. It would never occur to him that his sex entitled him to impose his view on another adult.

So are you seriously claiming that you actually believed you were a lesbian who had had children by IVF and was looking forward to her wedding? Or are you saying the alcohol made you want to tell lies? I don't understand.

I find evolution the biggest miracle of all.

[i'm going to annoy someone in a minute so I better leave while the going is good...]

who said that decisions aren't negotiated while having a 'team leader' in the family. That happens in the workplace too, the 'team' works together, all giving their input and ideas, often an agreement can be reached which all are happy with, sometimes it can't and in those circumstances it generally falls on the 'team leader' to make the final call.

crunchie you know I don't like to bring old threads into new (and totally unrelated) ones .

Most intelligent married adults don't regard one another as "team leader" and subordinate. How weird and unnatural.

So are you seriously claiming that you actually believed you were a lesbian who had had children by IVF and was looking forward to her wedding? Or are you saying the alcohol made you want to tell lies? I don't understand.

I thought the accepted translation was help meet i.e. fitting/suitable rather than help mate?
wtf this all has to do with whether it is preferable for a baby to looked after by a parent I am not at all sure....