No one having a strop about Alan Davies? Oh good, I'm proud of you all

[solidgoldbrass]

Because, honestly, what a load of old cock.

My DP was at Hillsborough, and I have to say that it has affected him like many people in Liverpool.

I think Scousers are an easy target for many 'comedians' and I find the professional grieving comments rather distasteful.

As someone said further up the thread, matches between Liverpool and Everton are obviously emotive at the best of times. So, the decision not to play the semi cup final game on the Hillsborough anniversary makes sense.

To those who've said 'it's only a game' - yes it is. Which is why the Hillsborough tragedy was so senseless. 96 people (some of them just children) went to a football match and never came home. Their families are STILL fighting for justice 23 years on. Can you even begin to imagine what that must be like? There deaths were all preventable, and still the families haven't received a proper apology. They also had to contend with the Sun 'newspaper' then rubbishing the dead.

I appreciate that others have had tragedy in their lives, but there hasn't been (thankfully) one of this scale in the footballing community ever since. I think it's right that those who lost their lives at Hillsborough are remembered.

As for Alan Davies, he's since backtracked his comments and says he supports the campaign for justice.

With regards to the death threats he received, obviously they are terrible and not representative of Liverpool fans as a whole.

Liverpool don't insist on not playing, they request that they don't have fixtures scheduled for that date. It's not happened yet, they weren't asked to change dates. Personally I think they should consider it, but as they've not been asked it's a little harsh to blame the football club.

'get over it' have a Josephine

Liverpool does not, as some have suggested, have a 'reputation' for grief.

I'm sorry but it does, as evidenced in posts upthread whether or not that reputation is justified is what's debatable.

People need to realise that it is not just about the deaths it is also about the disgusting lies and way Liverpool fans where treated at the time and ever since.
Well said!

I find it rather disconcerting that it is the scousers who are vilified for wanting to commemorate a tragedy and that it seems acceptable by some to arrogantly force a whole community into adopting a time limit for their grieving.

This is about families, community and respect. Chelsea F.C. have been gracious to accept this without complaint and I'm sure that Liverpool Football Club and the people of Merseyside, who were affected by the events of Hillsborough, are grateful for the respect shown.

One reason why Heysels is not commemorated in such a way is that the riot happened on the 29th May - a date by when the English football season is usually over.

Thing is, to most people in the UK who are neither Liverpudlians, football fans or relatives/friends of those who died at Hillsborough, it's just... not very relevant 20 years on, so all the yelling about Alan Davies seems an almighty fuss about nothing. People die, all the time. Many deaths are caused by incompetence, or cost-cutting, or active malevolence, as well as those deaths that are due to natural causes (but leave the bereaved just as bereaved). 60 or 70 people died in the fire at Kings Cross Station, for instance, which was caused at least in part by a general culture of neglect of stations (mountains of crap under the escalator fuelled the fire) but no one calls for a Tube boycott the day it happened.
It;s one thing to suffer a bearevement, process your grief, fight for justice if necessary. It's a bit much to insist that your tragedy matters more than millions of others, and to expect everyone to still treat you with awe and reverence decades down the line when it wasn't a big deal to them in the first place.

I don't see anyone saying that our tragedy was more important than others.

And to most people in the UK who are neither Liverpudlians, football fans or relatives/friends of those who died at Hillsborough who don't care then why should they have a say anyway? They don't care.

For those it matters to, it matters. A lot.

most people in the UK who are neither Liverpudlians, football fans or relatives/friends of those who died at Hillsborough, it's just... not very relevant 20 years on - then they won't care if a football fixture is moved; much less feel like they have to act with awe and reverence.

I'm not sure people from Liverpool do insist their tragedy was greater than anyone else's. It's just that they insist on observing it when so many others 'move on' defeated by weariness and the pressure to behave with 'decorum'.

I find their attitude rather admirable given that there are so many questions still to be answered and so many vested interests still against them. What makes it worse is that 23 years on those vested interests are mainly to do with face-saving. Why doesn't someone ask those people to grow up?

BTW I'm from Alan Davies's home town and he's marginally more welcome there than on Merseyside after some silly comments about the decent inhabitants of a large council estate. But I can't imagine that any of us in either place would waste time seriously plotting to kill him.

The investigations into Kevin Williams' death (the boy who went to my school) are still going on: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-17126678

It's still very relevant to some.

I don't think anyone insists the tragedy was greater? They asked for it to be moved, the F.A complied , therefore they agree with them.
What are you so bothered about it to start a thread?
Twitter is terrible for death threats. Look up any footballer, politician etc and they get threats every bloody day.
Alan Davies was just courting publicity.

I think that fact that the people affected directly by the tragedy still believe there are huge questions yet to be answered, makes this different to other disasters.
What always struck me as the most poignant and upsetting experience was the woman whose two daughters died. She said she went to a football match a mother and hours later lost her children. Women like this haven't had the hollow satisfaction of ever really finding out how the tradegy occurred or who was to blame. It must be like living with an open sore.
Personally, I think the way people in Liverpool grieve is actually quite healthy and more in line with the rest of the world. Yes, it is different to the stiff upper lip attitude the rest of the UK have but most other cultures don't understand why the English think it is healthy not to openly express grief.

"I can personally testify to the impact of the tragedy on the entire Liverpudlian diaspora."
As a member of said "diaspora" (and I hope I'm not alone in finding the application of this phrase to a group of people who have never been forcibly exiled and persecuted from anywhere a little distasteful) I would like to disassociate myself from this remark.
What happened at Hillsborough was an appalling tragedy and those who lost loved ones must grieve however helps them the most. However the behaviour of the city at large over Hillsborough I personally find embarrassing to be associated with.

My apologies if I have offended anyone other than ReactionaryFish by using the term 'diaspora' in its broadest sense. I encounter people pretty much every day who identify openly as a member of one 'diaspora' or another, and I'm sure that most of them don't believe that they have been persecuted either; like me, they are economic or social migrants.

Perhaps I ought also not to have made the assumption that the tragedy made an impact on absolutely everyone from Liverpool, since at least one person wishes to be disassociated from that statement.

Seeing all the relatives on the pitch before kick off is so sad.

The relatives have no closure so they still must publicly grieve. How can they move on when questions about what happened on that day are still unanswered 23 years on? These victims should not be forgotten.

I can't help thinking that football fans are best remembered by playing football.

Has nobody pointed out that there's a memorial service at Anfield every April 15th, and the managers and players attend to pay their respects. This could be one factor why they don't play on the 15th as well, no?

Leaving aside the issue of how long is too long (although for the record I'm firmly in the 'how dare you dictate how people grieve' camp on this one), surely there are practical issues associated with playing on that date as well. First there is the fact that the team are otherwise engaged paying their respects, as stated above. Additionally, the behaviour of a significant minority of fans whose team weren't even playing Liverpool during the minute's silence on Sunday goes to show the sad likelihood that the Liverpool fans - many of whom will have a direct connection to Hillsborough and may even have been there - would have to endure such abuse were they to play certain teams on that date.

Of course you could argue that this would be highly unlikely had they been playing Everton (and the vast majority of other teams as well I hasten to add), as they would have been this year, but as picking and choosing would be even more controversial than a blanket refusal this is probably the most effective way to minimise similar abuse on what to many is for personal reasons still a terrible day. Or is that just something they should have to 'get over' as well?

They need to move on, really they do

I think a distinction needs to be drawn between those who lost friends and loved ones - who will grieve to their dying days I have no doubt - and the rest of the city. I may be from Liverpool but I am no more personally touched by this than someone who lives in London, Luton or Timbuktu and I would make myself the object of deserved ridicule by pretending that I am. the fact is Liverpool is treated as a bit of a joke these days, and the reaction to Davies's remarks demonstrates why.

The refusal to play on this date is just another example of the arrogance of Liverpool, they are the most pretentious club in the country by a mile.

"First there is the fact that the team are otherwise engaged paying their respects, as stated above"

Their respects can be paid anywhere. As I said, I can think of no better way to honour football fans than playing football.