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No one having a strop about Alan Davies? Oh good, I'm proud of you all

83 replies

solidgoldbrass · 12/04/2012 02:56

Because, honestly, what a load of old cock.

OP posts:
JosephineCD · 12/04/2012 18:46

Is it just home games they won't play on the 15th and they have some agreement with the league that they will get an away game if matches are being played on the 15th? It's utterly ridiculous to state that Liverpool will never again play on 15th April.

Alibabaandthe40nappies · 12/04/2012 18:49

It is ridiculous that they expect the whole fixture to be rearranged to suit them.

If they don't want to play then they can drop out of the tournament or miss a game or whatever.
There are some athletes who don't compete on Sundays because of religious beliefs - one british athlete even missed the Olympics once because his competition was on a Sunday. You don't see those people throwing a tantrum and expecting things to be rearranged for their benefit.

FrothingBeserker · 12/04/2012 18:55

it wasn't a home game, Josephine (and Hillsborough is not Liverpool's home stadium).

It's a fixture at Wembley, which happens to be on the anniversary date.

there are tributes and memorials already arranged (minute's silence, black armbands, families remembered etc), but that's not enough. only demanding that the whole fixture is rearranged is good enough, it would seem.

thebestisyettocome · 12/04/2012 18:58

Cupofnrownjoy. I think you are probably right to say some people in Liverpool mourn differently to the rest of the UK. And yes, it possibly is a cultural thing.

CupOfBrownJoy · 12/04/2012 19:00

@ thebest

I was really hoping my post wouldn't be taken the "wrong way". I have tried not to generalise, and it is genuinely my experience...

KenDoddsDadsDog · 12/04/2012 19:11

It happens where I live too - shrines everywhere. It has only really happened since the Princess Diana craziness though. There are rows and rows of flowers etc on the bridge across the river.
From living there for ten years, they do tend to do death the Irish/ Catholic way. Waking the body etc.

MysteriousHamster · 12/04/2012 19:32

I'm not sure continuing to refuse to play on that date is a sensible move.

However...

I can't stand the fact this thread has turned into slagging off Liverpudlians for being griefers or whatever you want to call them.

(and yes I do come from the Merseyside area)

I see roadside tributes maintained for years in all sorts of places (I've lived in a few major cities since I left home).

It's not so much being a victim as the city coming together over sad events to support one another. Hillsborough affected so many people. I lived in a small town on the edge of the Liverpool postcode and a boy at my school died there. Friends had relatives who went. It's not revelling in mourning, for fuck's sake, it was a tragedy.

Discussing in a reasonable manner whether it's selfish not to play on that date is one thing (I agree forfeiting a match may be a better option if the other club is not happy), but slagging off all Liverpudlians, really? Professional grief? FFS.

solidgoldbrass · 12/04/2012 19:37

I don't think excessive grief-wankery is a particularly Liverpudlian phenomenon, I'm forever tripping over piles of rotting flowers in the street.

OP posts:
KenDoddsDadsDog · 12/04/2012 19:50

Mysterious - I heard so many stories from that day when I lived there. It affected everyone. I think part of it is related to the controversy, there has never been a final answer.

Northernlurker · 12/04/2012 20:02

I think AD was absolutely right on this one. Many sporting teams face tragedy. Many - in fact most - towns and cities face tragedy. Life is unbearably painful sometimes but it always, always keeps on rolling and there is a line to be drawn between reasonable recognition and wallowing.

JosephineCD · 12/04/2012 20:09

Wasn't there a thing years ago where a chicken foetus was found in the street in Liverpool and people thought it was a baby and cards and flowers appeared before the police had time to announce it was only a chicken?

JosephineCD · 12/04/2012 20:11

Yes, story is here. It was shortly after Boris Johnson criticised the city for being "addicted to grief".

Nancy66 · 12/04/2012 20:20

"Merseyside police told the community to 'stop grieving, it's only a chicken.' "

brilliant.

Eggrules · 12/04/2012 20:51

Well said keepingupwiththejoneses thebestisyettocome MysteriousHamster

If Boris Johnson says the city for being "addicted to grief" it must be true Hmm.

The anti - Liverpudlian opinions being voiced here are a load of old cock.

meditrina · 12/04/2012 21:06

Aside from finding it somewhat tasteless to attempt to prescribe length of grief or format of remembrance (which has been happening annually, with large attendance every year at Anfield), I think the football issues might bear closer scrutiny.

Firstly, it's an FA Cup fixture, so not arranged at the beginning of the season like the rest. That there would be a Liverpool derby on a sensitive date, and the one day when Anfield has a prior engagement was recent fluke. That a team active in Europe might still be in the FA cup (or in tight Premiership finish a this stage) and have important matches within days of each other is totally normal. And the FA draw could equal have put the teams playing this way roundin the first place. It's not a big deal, and it's not Chelsea who are complaining.

So why is Davis, an Arsenal pundit, doing this? I think the reason lies in wanting to create an atmosphere (that he might hope is self-fulfilling prophecy) that Chelsea are too tired and will lose. Why? Because if Chelsea win in Europe, they get one of the valuable places for Europe next year even if they finish lower down the Premiership. Arsenal are still vulnerable and might not qualify for Europe the last thing one of their supporters needs is a team currently lower than them securing a place that might otherwise have been theirs.

And then the next Saturday (21) Arsenal play Chelsea. I note he's not complaining about that (equal) ago between games. But he would want the dialogue to be "tired Chelsea" - the points from these last 5 games are going to be vital.

His comments are very self-serving, from an Arsenal pov, but they would be wouldn't they?

KenDoddsDadsDog · 12/04/2012 21:09

Oh and the fact that he has to resort to saying something controversial to get publicity these days.

JosephineCD · 12/04/2012 21:17

meditrina I think you are looking for conspiracies where there are none.

CupOfBrownJoy · 12/04/2012 22:19

MysteriousHamster, if you are referring to my posts I suggest you read them again.

I have not generalised about "all" liverpudlians and have simply stated my experience. This may well happen in the rest of the UK, I simply noticed it to a greater degree in Liverpool.

I suggested why this might be the case and stated that I find it odd, which I do.

No need to froth Smile

meditrina · 13/04/2012 08:06

Don't be silly. It's not a conspiracy.

It's an obvious answer to "why would an Arsenal pundit want to stir up things right now for poor, tired Chelsea?"

Or do you think the description of the state of the teams in those competitions is wrong, and if so in what ways?

TimHJ · 13/04/2012 11:41

I don't have an issue with Alan Davies's right to an opinion, and those who have issued death threats against him have clearly overstepped the mark in the most egregious way. But I do disagree with him - as with commenters here who suggest that Liverpool should be forced to play, or to forfeit the match, simply because the anniversaries of Munich and Bradford are not remembered in this way.

A couple of commenters have said that the world moves on - and thankfully, it does. But time also brings change in the way that communities respond to tragedy. Munich in particular was a lifetime ago, and while I have no evidence to support my view, I doubt very much that Manchester United would have refused to play even on the first anniversary of that disaster, let alone the 23rd. Back in 1958, disaster on a much larger scale was still fresh in the memory, and as anyone who has seen flowers taped to a lamp-post would agree, we deal with grief very differently these days. It's neither right nor wrong - just different. What's more, I firmly believe that had Manchester United started a tradition back in 1959 of avoiding matches on February 6th, the football world would respect that to this day - just as would be the case if the 96 Hillsborough victims had been Nottingham Forest fans. And it's worth noting that for the first three anniversaries, the 96th victim, Tony Bland, was in hospital on a life support machine - not to forget that controversies and cover-up allegations still remain. None of that is true of the other disasters mentioned here.

Liverpool does not, as some have suggested, have a 'reputation' for grief. This is a myth that stems in large part from Boris Johnson's dreadful article in 2004 - and recent disclosures under the 30-year rule might suggest that that article, in turn, has its roots in a long-standing belief among the establishment that the city is an embarrasing basket case which should be abandoned to decay.

I was born in Liverpool but have set foot in the city no more than a dozen or so times since leaving it in a pram at the age of 18 months. But as one who was offered a ticket for the Hillsborough semi-final but had to decline because I couldn't afford to go, I can personally testify to the impact of the tragedy on the entire Liverpudlian diaspora. No-one to my knowledge has objected to the club's stance for all these long years - in fact, my impression has been that it was universally respected by those who know football as an understandable and admirable tradition. But the moment it causes a problem that affects the Champions League, all this negativity springs up - which to me, says more about our society than it does about Liverpool Football Club.

treboreuk · 13/04/2012 13:43

what a lot of people dont realise is this talentless idiot's comments come from a hatred of scousers, he appeared on room 101 years ago wanting scousers put in room 101, his career is on the slide so he has made the comments to get back in the news, so he wins twofold, slagging off scousers (his favourite pastime) and getting his ugly mug back in the media

treboreuk · 13/04/2012 13:48

oh and can i just point out, it,s the fa and the fact they are upto their necks in debt with wembley that the semi finals have to be played at wembley, and also tv dictates what games are on at what day and time, if we went back a few years there would not be a problem as both semis would kick off on saturday at 3pm, probably at the emirates and old trafford

FoofFighter · 13/04/2012 13:53

I'm a Liverpool fan. Whilst I agree that maybe because of the Catholic culture in Liverpool to others it may seem OTT, really who can put a number on how long one is allowed to grieve for? It wasn't just one or two people. It was 96 lives lost (97 now of course)

To have a local derby game at such a high level (semis of FA cup) on that date would be a recipe for disaster.

YNWA JFT 96 (97)

Chubfuddler · 13/04/2012 13:54

I agree with frothing berserker too. Fine if Liverpool don't want to play on April 15th but if they are scheduled to do so they play it or forfeit the match.

picnicbasketcase · 13/04/2012 13:55

I think he raised an interesting point but really should have thought harder about how he worded it and the inevitable reaction from some people. The death threats and nasty messages on Twitter have been way worse though - wishing him and his family cancer and threatening to piss on his mother's grave.. wtf