Waiting with baited breath! What will the chancellor do with CB on Wednesday.

[chickydoo]

Probably been done to death, but holding my breath to see what the budget will bring for child benefit on Weds? Will there be a U turn?
What do you think will happen?

Women should be claiming CB because that's how they protect their pensions through HRP. If CB is removed from the partners of high rate tax payers then how will that element be delivered? That's why it has to be women making the claim because generally speaking childbearing impacts more on a woman's earning potential and long term pension prospects than on that of the male parent.
My children don't claim child benefit, I do and it's intended for my use to defray the costs inherent in raising children.

Except where mum goes out to work and Dad stays at home, then Dad needs to claim CB to protect his pension. I have already said I agree the govt need to make sure they introduce another method of protecting state pension. I think iCB is intended to help towards the cost of raising children, but the burden of that cost is on both parents JOINTLY, not just the mother.

CB was introduced so that women would have some money to spend on basics for the family if they had a feckless husband. Which is also why it was universal.

As much as we might like to think that way of living has become "outdated" the fact is that many women (and it is still almost always women) are still living like that. The reason for doing it has not actually changed, people have not changed.

The other plusses for universality are:

• Very cheap to administer
• Protects the pension of the recipient
• Everyone gets it so there are very few people who envy it of each other. As soon as a benefit is only given to "those people" then the arguments start coming about "why should they get it" and before you know it, it's been eroded and is gone

Minuses for non-universality in the way the government is suggesting:

• Ludicrously unfair that people with more money should continue to get it while people with less money get it stopped
• How are they going to protect pensions. Deafening silence (maybe they aren't)
• There is no system in place to administer it
• At the moment the UK works on the basis of INDEPENDENT TAXATION. That is one of the basic principles of our tax system. Changing that = huge overhaul and there are all sorts of political and social issues
• The way they want to do it absolutely clobbers HRT single parents. People seem to talk in terms of two working parents or one working and one SAH ie free childcare. Single parent earning just over HRT is already carrying all childcare costs etc and now this. So it is unfair in more ways than one

Probably more.
Stupid idea.

Well, I reckon it'll go ahead as planned. I'm already getting completely shafted by this government with the pension levy starting next month on civil servants costing me £80 per month net, so losing another £80 quid isn't going to break the bank is it? Yeah right Gideon. I can't afford £160 drop in income anymore than the next person. I earn £47k (massively discounted on what I would earn in the private sector for my profession, trust me) and I work damned hard for it for my family. I spend that money locally on my child. Independent taxation is a right and to erode the principle in such a way is demeaning to men and women.

Add in regional pay for civil servants on top of a pay freeze and my income is down massively against inflation. I'll have to sell the family car soon to free up cash to pay the bills.

I really want them to explain exactly HOW this is going to work. Because no-one can see how they are going to do it without spending inordinate amounts of money.

I know it's a scary thought, but do you think it possible the government don't know about the pension protection bit of CB. Would love someone to challenge them on it - no point asking my MP cos he's a Tory but if anyone has a good Labour one, then might be worth an ask. Bit surprised not one journalist has asked - maybe they are all too rich to care. Cant the powers at munsnet mention it to them ? I think they are hoping to administer it by us all being very honest and saying our partners are HRT but I'm going to say I don't know what he earns (I don't exactly). Oh and just a thought - out council ask for the CB form as proof of address for school admissions, so does this means my kids will not be able to go to school.

I mentioned the HRP issue to a friend who is a journalist. She hadn't heard anything about it either. I think it's perfectly possible that Osbourne hadn't heard of it but I'm absolutely sure the civil service will have reminded him of that aspect. The silence suggests to me that they have no plan and are hoping they can get away with it.

It has been raised in interviews, the commons, all sorts. They have heard the question but they won't answer it.

That's even more scary. Shows they really don't care about woman at all. Bit depressing.

No they don't care. Because high rate taxpayers must share the pain apparently - except very often they won't be removing the benefit from the high rate payers, they'll be removing it from their lower waged or unwaged partners and if rumours are correct they'll be lowering the tax rate for those on the highest salaries. It's hard to believe.

I am going to email the Treasury today, once announcement is made, and ask how they are going to protect the pensions in future. I work (v low paid) but I took 7 years out to raise my kids to school age. Bet I don't get a reply ! The silence on this, even from someone like Harriet Harman is deafening.

I;ve given up on HRP for me. I am close to completing my MA which is something I know I am tremendously lucky to have been able to do and I hoped to go back to work in a few years (anticipating a battle for ds3's school as there is NO comp locally that can suit him except the one ds1 attends which has hundreds of applicants for 2 places each year). had hoped to get back into charity sector and appropriate jobs seem to pay around £30k which in S E Wales is like being a millionaire (sort of ;) ) but looks like I will have to just do a few hours consultancy work from home around the boys.

DH ahd always planned to do his half of that but his business is getting time consuming and there is no legislation allowing you to split being a carer; and under the new rules you can't work at all and claim carer's as the number of hours they are setting as a UC minimum for a carer on the MR level is the same as the cut off level for CA: so we can;t take the risk of DH sharing the workload and not going with the business 100%. My business like any will take time to grow.

But thanks Government: I worked this hard, doing finals with a 5 week old baby, just to be shoved back into the role of SAHM. Appreciated.

'CB was introduced so that women would have some money to spend on basics for the family if they had a feckless husband. Which is also why it was universal.'

In my 'last life' (ie pre-ASD) I worked with lots of families in just that situation- abusive, addicted, whatever- and that CB was their passport outta there.

I think the HRP bit is a strategem- make SAHP dependent on their OH and cut the pensions bill to deal with the whole geriactric timebomb thing.

Sancti this is what concerns me most. The assumption that every family with a HRT shares the money equally. I'm lucky, we have a joint account, but I know through my work with teenagers that some women have to 'settle up' with their partners at the end of the month. Their CB is their lifeline to some independence & to give their kids a few things. Just because your partner is wealthy does not mean you are. Sad but true and incredibly naive to think otherwise. I want to fight this but not sure how - never been v political !

I've asked about HRP on the webchat thread

Well done NL

Mumsneedwine- these things are hard to fight as so many questions about policy are not answered by other parties. I mean, there is Red Labour (or Plaid dependent on where you are, indeed Scotland has the SNP..) but they are a whole ideology away.

Personally I think the key is to raise awareness and question: ask people about HRP, explain to them how this change has been unfairly administered. I personally am not anti cuts, but I want them made fairly and without undue burden on vulnerable groups- such as abused women, the disabled, etc.

Shout, write letters to newspapers, make yourself heard.

The assumption that every family with a HRT shares the money equally.
I understand what you say but at the same time goverments can't make policies based on the fact some people choose to live their lives in an unbalanced relationship.

I think the government said that the way the CB cut would happen was that the parent who currently receives CB would continue to receive it and the parent who was the higher rate taxpayer would have the CB taxed off their income when they do their tax return at the end of the year. That means the problems of getting credited years for pension and non-sharing of income won't happen.

My prediction is that they will announce a taper on the withdrawal of Child Benefit in the budget - say, take away 40p for every £1 you earn over the Higher Rate tax threshold. That solves the cliff-edge problem, where if you go £1 over the threshold you could lose thousands of pounds. They don't like that because it is a disincentive to earn more, work harder, get promoted and pay more taxes. The problem with two lower rate tax payers earning £80k between them but still qualifying for CB doesn't provide any disincentives to earn more, so I think they will leave that. We shall see tomorrow!

Is it choice Niceguy? Isn't that a factor likely in financial abuse?

Besides they did make a policy; that was what brought us CB in the first place. And a growing number of families with a SAHM (I assume, just as a result of a growing number of redundancies / reduction in jobs ops / rise in childcare costs) will make it more of a problem long term.

Gaully I much prefer that idea, it makes far more sense that the existing proposal. It's not right that people on HRT should be exempt from money saving cuts any more than anyone else (and I said earlier, as a disabled family we lose £25 PW for ds3 from April) but my big beef is that it must be fairly administered.

i think it is really distructive of the state to enable the behaviour of not sharing finance.

Yes it is.

Hard one to sort though above the level of emergency escape routes such as providing CB.

Actually Dh gets our CB as it saves me just transferring it to his account for bills, and I was changing bank accounts when we had the last baby anyway; it took a form and a good talking to about being sure I wasn't being pressurised from CB before that was possible. A good thing.

For those who are asking how this is going to work I read (somewhere, but can't remember where) that under the plans the CB could still be claimed (addressing the HRP issue and the arguments about claimants often having no other money of their own) but that the HRT's personal allowance would be decreased by the amount of CB being claimed. This would require the HRT to declare that a partner was claiming CB. Would require total honesty by all - and we know that's how society operates - NOT.

I'm hoping for either the threshold to be applied to household income (as CTCs were) but that it will be higher eg £60-70k (this is purely selfish as otherwise we'll lose out which we won't under the one HRT rule). Otherwise a tapering, or stop it when the children reach 12. Will be watching closely tomorrow.

So it seems my husband will be taxed on my income - is that even legal ??? He can honestly say he doesn't know if I claim it and I can say I don't know what he earns . The tax man can then make of our don't know answers what he wants. And if a family with a joint income of £80k still get it I will defy them to means test us. Make it fair not divisive !

more leaks

Now, I have to say this WILL help us, though it's not true it wills top carers being affected by TC cuts- we will still lose £25 PW to the change in disability tax credits.

However, my friend who has 3 severely disabled children and needs her husband home to help lift etc will still lose £50 PW to the disability Tax Credit change, and as he can't work, get nothing extra to help. She is petrified how they will make ends meet.

mumneeds - does this change mean your husband is being taxed on your income?