The Sun launches 'Beat the Cheats' campaign.

[madhairday]

I really haven't even got the words.

This guardian article says it all Are Sun readers ready to Beat the Cheat

Another vicious attack on disabled and sick people, backed up by the wisdom of IDS, no less.

Nilgiri - you've interpreted what I said to suit your own agenda.
Many of my colleagues went to other courts on other days - all found the same. So, actually, I would say it was representative. If I went to a court in any major town today I would find the same.

NanaNina - oh do piss off you tedious, cut n paste rent a gob....all you ever do is rant ill-informed left-wing propaganda that you copy from other sites. Form your own opinion, educate yourself, see for yourself.....your posting has nothing to do with anything I've said.....I remember you from some adoption thread. You clearly had no clue what on earth you were talking about.

At least I speak from experience and research. I don't just sit at home in a beanie hat reading the Guardian

Which bit?

That you travelled to Birmingham specifically to attend a court doing lots of benefit cases? You said that bit yourself.

That this might have been in response to an invitation from some agency? I'm genuinely asking about that. Feel free to say it wasn't so.

NanaNina Totally agree with you. BTW when all the tax evaders, VAT cheats etc are dealt with appropriately and fairly I ?may dob in a benefit cheat I think this lot beat Maggie hands down and she was an evil bitch.

By the way, you've now claimed that
a) 99% of all cases at a magistrates court were benefit fraud cases
b) you believe this to be the same in any major town across the country.

Which rather begs the question how the shoplifting, burglary, speeding, parking, assault and, well all the other stuff dealt with by magistrates gets done.

So I went and looked this up - you know, that research thing you claim to do. Here's the Ministry of Justice statistics page. Fig. 2 shows that around 30% of magistrates court business is summary motoring offences.

Further, down right had side, you will see a downloadable spreadsheet of national statistics called "Offences tables - September 2011". (Haven't spent enough time to understand if this is magistrates courts only - that's something you could do, seeing as how it's important for your job.)

The offences for the 12 months ending September 2011 are as follows:
Violence against the person - - - 58.3 thousand
Sexual offences - - - - - - - - - - 19.7 thousand
Burglary - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 32.0 thousand
Robbery - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 12.5 thousand
Theft and handling stolen goods - 176.5 thousand
Fraud and forgery - - - - - - - - - 49.8 thousand
Criminal damage - - - - - - - - - - 10.9 thousand
Drug offences - - - - - - - - - - - - 96.1 thousand
Other indictable offences - - - - - 116.2 thousand
Indictable motoring offences - - - 4.1 thousand
Summary non-motoring offences - 602.3 thousand
Summary motoring offences - - - 654.6 thousand

Even if benefit fraud were all of the fraud and forgery cases, the absolute maximum would be 2.7 % of all cases.

Damn, serious anmechange fail. This is Nilgirl, of course.

Anyway, t'all makes me reflect further on your comment about "interpreting to suit one's own agenda", Nancy.

Oh dear nancy 66 you don't like me do you. I think your personal attack on me says more about you than it does about me. As far as adoption is concerned I do actually have 30 years experience in adoption and fostering for a LA, but I don't really have to defend myself to you.

Anyway you have given me food for thought, and I have just shredded my Guardian and sadly as a 68 year old woman I've never owned a beanie, but if someone gives me one I'll make sure I never wear it.

Well done serialkipper for providing the statistics, but Nancy will probably be able to discredit you because of all her experience and research!

I don't usually resort to sarcasm but twas all I could do in this case.

However it would be a pity if this thread degenerated into a battle with this Nancy woman. Any chance we could carry on the debate and ignore her posts?

I am wearing a beanie today and reading the guardian ! Also making lentil soup for dinner and would never report anyone we pay taxes for people to do that job

Nice to see 6 more of murdochs lot cuffed today!

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Excellent post Heswall - there is another quote "all if takes for evil to thrive is for good men (and women) to stand by and do nothing" (can't remember who said it,) but I'm sure Nancy with all her experience and research will know, (sorry shouldn't have said that but couldn't resist it) but the problem is that I and I'm sure many others feel frustrated at what is happening but feel powerless to do anything about it.

I have been a Labour voter all my life, but I think Tony Blair finished off the Labour Party with his "New Labour" and the war on Iraq, and Milliband is too nice a guy, too polite, he doesn't have enough fire in his belly for my liking.

The Sun is a right wing rag but sadly a huge number of the population read it (or look at the pictures) and as for the News of the World - don't think there is any need to say anything as I'm sure we are all acquainted with the scandals around phone hacking etc etc. How low can anyone crawl I ask myself. Anyone who supports Murdoch is a sad individual indeed.

Interesting statistics, serialkipper. I did wonder about Nancy's 99%

I didn't wonder about Nancy's 99%. It made me laugh, though.

My mum was a social worker she retired last xmas. She was responsible for helping vulnerable adults complete benefit forms etc and she found that the majority of them had been living for years for way less than they were actually entitled to as they didn't fill the forms out properly

Agree noddyholder, even the DWP will admit that thousands of eligible people are not claiming benefits to which they are entitled. Maybe the Sun could do an article about remedying this matter. I think the forms are actually unnecessarily complicated and lengthy to put people off making a claim. I was helping an elderly relative about a year ago to claim DLA and the form was anout 12 pages long (well it was more like a booklet really). She is blind in one eye and was claiming incapacity benefit (when it still existed) and someone from the council told her she couldn't claim DLA because she was getting incapacity benefit. This was totally wrong information, as DLA is non means tested. She most certainly did qualify for DLA but could have been claiming it for several years had she not just accepted the information given to her by a council employee.

This is just one example and there will be thousands more as the govt (IF they were honest - slim chance there) and the DWP would confirm.

Only this morning it was said there was £5million in unclaimed benefits by the elderly.

That's awful NanaNina but I know it's all too true. There is a lot of misinformation out there. Instead of concentrating on benefit cheats the govt should be making sure the most vulnerable are receiving all they need. But instead they're stealthily taking it away

Too true madhairday and I don't think we have seen anything yet - this is just the beginning. The Health & Social Care Bill looks set to go through - this will mean that up to 49% of hospital beds will be available for private patients. The welfare to work programme is horrendous with cancer patients undergoing chemotherapy are expected to find work between chemo sessions. I must stop or I willgo on for hours. I said to a friend of mine recently (who is a very competent historian) that this evil coalition were taking us back to the 1930s and he said "no more like the 1890s"

I know. :( We seem to be taking more than a few steps backwards into the dark ages. It'll be the Workhouse next for those benefit scrounging scum and terminally ill people who refuse Workfare, just wait and see. It's bloody terrifying :(

Sadly we are victims of our own success, the NHS are saving so many more children who although lead good lives are unfortunately disabled. Cancer patients are surviving longer but some are needing support etc etc..And we are not a country of benefit cheats!

Yes, I've been reading a lot of Victorian newspapers while doing our family history, and keep being struck by how similar the language and values are.

The root of both is the notion of extreme personal responsibility. Good shiboleths for this are always how much people are personally blamed for being ill, and how much they are blamed for being born to the parents they were (which is implicit in creating an educational system which amplifies parental effects rather than remaining neutral or minimising it).