The Sun launches 'Beat the Cheats' campaign.

[madhairday]

I really haven't even got the words.

This guardian article says it all Are Sun readers ready to Beat the Cheat

Another vicious attack on disabled and sick people, backed up by the wisdom of IDS, no less.

...that was The News of The World.

Mrbojangles, I'm completely bemused why you are upset about a person with a disability having the temerity to compete in the Paralympics? Bizarre. I think you've fallen foul of tabloid hysteria. I've no idea who you are talking about, but I would fully most people who compete in the games to be in receipt of DLA (or be entitled to it) as disability costs a packet. And, er, you have to be disabled to take part. And to claim. Not exclusive at all.

As was mentioned above, DLA recipients can have a full time job, windsurf, ski, white water raft, compete in wheelchair marathons, whatever. The benefit is to offset the costs of the disability, not to render you humble and grateful and locked in your bedroom for all eternity. My apologies if this would be your preference for your DLA recipients. Personally, I would rather they used their DLA for activities of daily living and, y'know, actually live. Skiing and all.

OH YAY
MORE disablist hate spewed out my a shit rag.
sadly there will be some ignorant shitheads that believe this crap

Nancy66 you are aware of a significant number of Sun journalists who were recently arrested on suspicion of illegal financial dealings with the police, are you not?

I would also hope that you have the compassion to realise that the 'scroungers' message coming out from the government and the right-wing press is leading to genuinely disabled people being abused, spat on and attacked?

As things stand, the cost (in financial, social and emotional terms) of identifying and prosecuting the very small percentage of people who cheat when getting disability benefits is coming at a horrendous cost to the majority who are genuinely disabled and have every right to these benefits.

Have some compassion and some common sense.

Yes, I am aware of the Sun arrests.

I know that disabled people get abused and attacked - I'm not sure I would put this down to any newspaper campaign though - or even link it to the benefit issue.

The Sun campaign isn't 'shop a disabled person' - it's about curbing the very wide spread benefit abuse in this country.

Sorry, I've just read the original article in the Sun, and I don't see how this so-called campaign isn't going to lead to people making more malicious calls.

If you think that the recent rhetoric from the government and the red tops isn't a contributing factor in the rise in hate crime against disabled people, you are very, very naive.

I'm also less than impressed with the Sun's statistics on fraud: 80p in every £100 is claimed fraudulently - well, that's just massive, isn't it, especially when set against all the procurement cock-ups in the MOD.

And then there is the way all benefits are lumped together - the Sun refuses to admit that a lot of these benefits are claimed by people who work, but are paid such low wages that they need topping up to be a living income.

Very widespread, my a*. Have a .

My friend's mum had a visit lately. She's on disability allowance. Apparently she does the housework for her other elderly neighbour Ermmm no, she was just checking post etc.. whilst the old lady was away. And keeps an eye on her but she certainly isn't capable of housework. Some busy body neighbour must've reported her?

If you don't think benefit fraud is widespread then spend a day in a magistrates court ....they're open to the public - treat yourself.

And the % of people who end up in magistrates' court is what of the total of people who claim benefits???

Curiousmama your friend's mum is exactly what I am talking about when I try to address the things Nancy66 is saying. Perfect example of why the Sun's campaign is going to be harmful to the most vulnerable.

No idea what the percentage is - but having spent a day (quite recently) at a Birmingham magistrates court where 99% of the cases were concering benefit fraud - amounting to tens of thousands of pounds - and that's one court on one day - then I feel pretty confident in saying it's a widespread and costly problem.
I also think the £1.2billion stated is a massive under-estimate.

Well, that's just fabulous.
I get High rate care, and mobility DLA.
I don't 'look' disabled. My disability is on the inside, I have brittle asthma. Not being able to breathe is fairly debilitating.

Nice of the Sun to give more reasons for folk to assume I'm on the fiddle though.

Wankers.

Nancy66 this thread is specifically concerned with DLA. The government's own figures for DLA fraud are calculated at less than 0.5%.

But the Sun's campaign ISNT about disabled people....as people seem to be suggesting

The campaign is backed by Iain Duncan Smith - see linked article above.

The campaign is about encouraging people to call the hotline - and the rate of cases of genuine fraud found via the hotline is something horrendous below 1%. Which means 99% of calls are either ignorant or malicious.

Do we really think this is something we want to encourage??? Do we want to become a nation of snitches?

The Stasi in East Germany relied on a similar system (Do I get a Godwin's Law award for this, or does it have to be Nazi Germany for that?).

Not something we want to emulate in any case. And as I've said 80p in 100 pounds is fraudulently claimed, according to the article - I make that a rate of 0.8%. Hardly overwhelming.

I know Netto, I feel the same, I also have lung disease and some days I can do a lot more than others - DLA took this fluctuation into account, but nosey neighbours may not - they may just think oh, she's out walking, what a scrounger, etc, not educating themselves to the fact that peoples disabilities can be variable and a walk one day may precede a week in bed, totally incapable of anything at all.

It's sick. pointythings I agree with all you say. Nancy66 can you really not see that the wrb and certain sections of the gutter press are stealthily attacking sick and disabled people? Drain on society anyone?

Never was the phrase 'gutter press' more appropriate.

Still, anything to detract from their own myriad failings.

madhairday - yes, I actually DO think that the disabled are being unfairly targetted by this government and cuts should be made elsewhere.

I also know that the disabled are subject to hate crimes and that these are on the increase.

I just don't agree with the premise of this particular thread.

Netto as you say alot of disabilities are hidden DS OK has down syndrome deaf & partially sighted. Not the end of the world according to the gutter press what about his poorly controlled epilepsy 3-4 seizures/week and usually pisses himself. Let me know if you know of a kind employer who will change his pants. Or perhaps a Sun reader "beat the cheater" would like the job.

Nancy, can I ask you why you were in a magistrates' court in Birmingham for a day?

Do you do this every week? Were you covering one specific case? Did you suddenly get seized with the urge to visit on a random day?

Or did someone suggest you go to that court on that particular day?

I'm just interested, because the last time I followed up a journalist about a benefits court case (he'd misrepresented DLA), he came back with "well I put your point to the govt press office and they said they were very happy with my coverage." Which made me wonder who the hell he imagined he was working for.

Nilgirl - it was for research purposes and, no, I don't do it every week.

The court was suggested to me and I went to, particularly, listen to cases of benefits fraud but, as it turned out, I did not have to hunt to find a day - the court was backed up with such cases on any given day.

I was just observing - nothing was written as a result.

Ah, so you were in fact looking for benefit fraud cases, and you had to pick which court specifically to do this, and travel all the way to Birmingham for it (I assume you're based in London).

The point is, you see, that if you had to do that, you then can't do what you did next and extrapolate:
"No idea what the percentage is - but having spent a day (quite recently) at a Birmingham magistrates court where 99% of the cases were concering benefit fraud - amounting to tens of thousands of pounds - and that's one court on one day - then I feel pretty confident in saying it's a widespread and costly problem."

Because by your very selection process you know it's not representative. (NB I'm not doubting that court deals with a large number of such cases, but clearly you're not expecting this level to be similar across all courts or you would have just rocked up at your nearest.)

It's also a bit interesting that you got to spend the whole day and travel to Birmingham for this, just to observe rather than to chase a specific story. I could be wrong, but that has an air of being in response to an invitation by a press office (for the DWP, or the local fraud team, or whoever).

Sorry, I'm not trying to make you out to be some sort of baddy. But one can end up being steered by govt - covering benefit fraud instead of road tax fraud or credit card fraud, or whatever - when a certain route is made smooth.

Hardly valid and reliable research to extrapolate from observing one court on one day.

Nancy66 the very fact that the 'man person in the street can't do much about rich tax dodgers' is exactly why we should pay attention to that. Why are they so well protected? It would save the country far more money to go after the big money cheats. This is an ideological attack on the vulnerable, plus it doesn't even make economic sense.

Maybe The Times could run a similar campaign to get people to shop their friends, neighbors and employers for tax evasion.

What a relief that so many posters are aware of this evil coalition - many of the cabinet ministers are multi-millionaires and have no idea of the lives of ordinary people. How dare they talk of benefit fraud, after the expenses claims debacle and the lies that were told (although I know some Labour MPs were also involved) and whilst a few fraudsters got custodial sentences, the vast majority paid the money back and that was end of matter. That simply would not have happened with anyone else found guilty of fraud.They would have been arrested, charged and sentenced accordingly.

How many Sun readers know that in this capitalist society a very small percentage of people own massive amounts of wealth in the country. It used to be 7% of the population owned 84% of the wealth but but I think it is now worse than that.

The "benefit scroungers" as they are so called are a drop in the ocean of the wheeling and dealing that goes on in the higher echelons of society and people are too stupid to see that. It's very worrying that the Sun and other red tops have such a big readership, who are just prepared to soak anything up because it's in print.

They are just pulling the rug out from the feet of the most deprived and disadvantaged people in our society, every which way. They are the scrapings of humanity as far as I am concerned, and as for Nancy 66 (whoever you are) could you crawl back under the stone you came from.