Should you be forced to work for no pay if you are terminally ill...

[MayaAngelCool]

...mentally ill, or disabled?

here

I am very tired so perhaps I am reading this incorrectly. But this seems to be horrendously cruel!

It's one thing if working is a personal choice for people in these groups. But this almost seems to have an Arbeit Macht Frei philosophy behind it - we will make the most vulnerable in our society work for nothing, because work is GOOD for you!

Vile.

www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/feb/24/jobseekers-unpaid-work-placements

NOW THEY HAVE JOBSEEKERS CLEANING PRIVATE HOMES FFS!!!

They can stick their mops where the sun don't shine, IMO. I would go without benefits rather than do that - simply because it is too physical for me given my disability. Sitting on a chair at a checkout for 4 hrs a day, 4 times a week = doable. Doing physical work that involves standing for long periods, thus putting more strain on my already broken body = NOT doable.

Either they offer me a PERMANENT, PAID AT LEAST NMW job in retail (but checkout work, not shelf-stacking - have already been medically retired from that once!!), or another industry that I can physically manage the job, at hours I am classed as fit to work BY MY NEUROLOGIST NOT FUCKING ATOSsers, or they steel themselves for an expose of welfare-to-work from the participants viewpoint!

This DWP consultation paper is well worth a read it also details how you can respond, which would need to be before March 9th 2012
dwp.gov.uk/docs/work-capability-assessment-cancer-treatment-consultation.pdf
One example below: of a person forced onto wrag,

"Case 4 ? Cancer treatment with little effect on function
35. A lady with history of breast cancer who was treated with chemotherapy and
radiotherapy 8 months ago, now finds she has a has swelling of her right arm and
has been referred to a lymphoedema clinic.
36. She is currently able to wash, dress, cook, perform housework tasks and
shopping on her own. An examination found that she had mild swelling of the
right arm with minimal limitation of movement and that all of the other examination
findings were normal.
37. The evidence suggests therefore, that this person is unlikely to have significant
functional impairment and as a result is likely to be fit to prepare for or return to work.

There's a great deal of "it depends" going on here, isn't there?

If the only impact on this person's function is from the size of the lump, and that impact is "minimal limitation of movement", then she's likely to still be at work and not off sick in the first place.

If, on the other hand, she is also suffering substantial fatigue as her body deals with either the cancer or cancer treatment, and if performing shopping/household tasks slowly and with rests is all she can manage, then adding 40 hrs/wk external work on top of that is unrealistic.

Well said, Niigirl. I recently read a blog in which a woman was saying she ought to be feeling better, several months after chemo, but in fact she feels like shit and can barely get ordinary daily chores done. These decisions should, as Hunty says, be made between each person and their medical specialist, not by a bet-hedging checklist.

Mini, thanks for linking to that paper, I shall definitely have a look.

Heswall i completely agree. I also dont think its going to be long before there is a massacre/tragedy because of this.
Backing someone into a corner when theyve got nothing left to lose could be a dangerous thing to do.
While watching the summer riots last year i remember turning to DH and saying "I wonder how many of them have been on workfare." Not that i think thats an excuse btw but it might go some way to explaining their anger especially as a lot of retail outlets were attacked.
I also knew that while the riots were going on that Cameron would blame the unemployed afterwards anyway which he did.

Please could some body give me a list of employers who would be prepared to give my beautiful son 31 Down Syndrome, deaf partially sighted and has epilepsy (only pisses his pants x 2 week).Promise every offer of an interview will be answered by his mum

2old2beamum, Years ago I worked for the LA and we provided training and support at day centres for people like your son.

The young people with LDs were allowed to attend upto 3 days a week and for some the rest of the week was spent in colleges learning with the support of paid staff to allow them to cope.

At the day centre people were given the opportunity to learn new skills and because we had a programme of paid work for companies like British Airways these people could actually earn a small wage.

All completely trashed by the penny pinching privatisation agenda

The whole process is currently so negative, because if you have a proper programme of welfare to work it technically costs more than paying benefits, as they paradoxically found in the US.

And still the argument that the media seem to be focusing all their attention on is that these compulsory work for your benefits (workfare) schemes are for the under-25 age group only?

Inclusion Scotland against workfare sceme.

To be honest it's peoples own fault for letting British politics turn into sneaky underhanded American politics.

We rely too heavily on a corrupt and largely bought out media to inform us of what our government is doing in our name and to our shame.

Now the government don't even need to bother hide it as the public is a political eunuch. People can only meekly watch as the wealth goes back to those who squandered it in the first place like bankers and corporations.

Even rioting is no good as you'll just get a criminal history and no one employ you ever again if they don't want bad publicity. Democracy has always been a boom and bust system of government and we need something more 21st century.

Interesting thoughts, jshm2. I remember hearing Noam Chomsky talking about how our society distracts us with stuff that doesn't actually make a profound difference to our lives (sport, excessive consumption), and as a consequence we become placid and passive. Neutered, as you've already said. But we must surely be able to hoist ourselves out of this languid State of mind?

I think if we hit them in their pockets they will sit up and take notice, protests have to involve direct action to get anyone to listen, so every pound that Tesco/Asda/Boots etc lose for not paying people who work for them hits their profits, hits their shareholders and gives money to businesses that don't use welfare for work schemes (workfare), it might take a while but I think it is worth doing.

If you get angry about the state of society, and stop being passive and placid and compliant, you end up being medicated.

All very Brave New World.

Boffin: do you have any examples of this?

I suppose I was thinking of the medicalisation of mood, and the increase in uptake in SSRI's over the last 20 years or so.

cf Soma pills

Maria Miller MP, Disabilities minister, if you have a minute send this e-mail to each address, or send her your own thoughts. Share with anyone you think might want to take action.

I am writing to you in your capacity as Disabilities Minister within the Department of Work And Pensions. I wish to express my growing concern over the restructuring of the assessment criteria for those with disabilities seeking to obtain State Benefit. My concern is exacerbated by the new alterations to the benefit system that will directly impact upon those with disabilities.

I wish to raise concerns relating to the consequence of the transition from Incapacity Benefit to Employment Support Allowance.

I am concerned about the findings reported in the Employment and Support Allowance: Outcomes of Work Capability Assessments, Great Britain ? new claims Department for Work and Pensions: Quarterly official statistics bulletin Jan 2012.

Of people who have made an ESA claim, only 48% of claimants have received a decision on their claim. A staggering 38% of claims were closed down before a face-to-face assessment had taken place. The DWP has stated that current data does not allow anything conclusive to be said about the destinations of people where their claim was closed.

Whilst I accept that in some cases the person may have recovered and either returned to work or claimed a different benefit, I have grave concerns that in many cases people may have dropped out of the system altogether as poor health will have prevented them from engaging successfully.

I also have concerns in relation to claimants where a decision was made, especially as only 43% of claimants were successful and deemed to qualify for the benefit. 57 per cent of claimants were assessed as Fit for Work and no longer eligible for ESA. I note that there is a 40% chance of successfully overturning this decision at appeal which suggests that the initial assessments are unduly harsh and/or poorly run.

? 21 per cent of claimants were placed in the Work Related Activity Group (WRAG)
? 22 per cent of claimants were placed in the Support Group (SG)

Unlike Incapacity Benefit, ESA places disabled people into two separate categories; those assessed as ?disabled enough? are put into the Support Group where they as individuals can decide to work if they wish; and those who are deemed by DWP to have varying capacities to work are placed within Work Related Activity Group.

I have serious concerns that this is far too simplistic an approach to understanding the complexities of living with long-term illness or disability and is not responsive to changes or fluctuations in health.

As the Disabilities Minister I urge you to speak directly to the people (not necessarily Disability Organisations) personally affected through this simplistic, yet complex-to-navigate approach to assessing fitness for work. Do you believe that you understand how the system impacts upon a given individual's general quality of life?

Would you, within your professional capacity, not agree that making such a simplistic division undermines the large variant of complex individual needs of the 6.9 million people within our population that have disabilities? The Government frequently talks about us all taking a rights and responsibilities approach, but at present I feel that it does not approach its own responsibilities correctly and puts an undue burden on sick and disabled people.

I feel that this approach has promoted a culture where disabled people can feel punished for showing signs of recovery and wanting to move towards work. People in the activity group express feelings that if they try to engage they will be pushed into mandatory work programmes; be moved over to Jobseekers Allowance or risk losing entitlement to benefit altogether. People within the Support Group are scared to lead as full and active lives as they may wish simply out of fear of facing reassessment and losing that status.
This to me seems wholly counterproductive. Have you ever heard such an opinion expressed by someone within the Support Group?
If so, what actions do you intend to take to rectify this situation?
If not then I put it to you that you need to start engaging more with those within the population whom you are employed to serve.

Signed

delete and sign here

Oops, I forgot the addresses.

Parliamentary: [email protected]
Ministerial: [email protected] (FAO Maria Miller)