Should you be forced to work for no pay if you are terminally ill...

[MayaAngelCool]

...mentally ill, or disabled?

here

I am very tired so perhaps I am reading this incorrectly. But this seems to be horrendously cruel!

It's one thing if working is a personal choice for people in these groups. But this almost seems to have an Arbeit Macht Frei philosophy behind it - we will make the most vulnerable in our society work for nothing, because work is GOOD for you!

Vile.

The inbreeding can't have helped either maybe that's why most Tory MPs are rabid pyschos

I read this earlier ; ""forced or compulsory labour is illegal under Section 71 of the Coroners and Justice Act 2009 in England, and section 47 of the Criminal Justice and Licensing (Scotland) Act 2010.Remember ?forced or compulsory labour is defined as:
?ALL WORK OR SERVICE WHICH IS EXACTED FROM ANY PERSON UNDER THE MENACE OF ANY PENALTY AND FOR WHICH THE SAID PERSON HAS NOT OFFERED HIMSELF VOLUNTARILY?"

one thing i'd like to know is when you are deemed fit for work (with your weekly seizure or panic attacks and emotional lability of a mood disorder for example) and somehow manage to get an employer to take you on in a climate of mass unemployment with no recent work experience or references and a known disability and then quite clearly can't do your job (are constantly off sick, fitting on the shop floor or hyperventilating in the toilets and bursting into tears in meetings) and are dismissed on the grounds of medical incapacity then what?

you go back on jsa? because now your gp, your consultant, you and your employer (whose been able to legally sack you on the grounds of you being incapacitated) are ALL wrong and still over ruled by an atos nurse who assessed you via a computer programme in 16 minutes?

not only are they going to destroy lives (and cost many their lives - already been multiple suicides from people terrified by all this) but they are going to waste millions of pounds and hours in appeals and legal action.

LOOK AT THIS SHITE

Now I am pissed off tbh- just had it formally confirmed ds4 has developmental issues and needs an IEP which school refuse, PMT, not taken meds yet today but

FFS!

Like GF we've ahd family expressing in front of the boys that the solution would be euthanasia for all disabled people.

Notably BIL chose not to say it when DH was there (I just cried)- wonder why that was

Twat

the reality is we'd all end up on workfare because no employer is going to take someone on in this climate who hasn't worked for 5 years and has clear health problems that are going to lead them to be unfit to work or at least highly unreliable. they're just not. there are brilliantly qualified people out there queuing up for menial jobs - the people we are talking about aren't even going to get their cover letters read let alone get to interview.

you could be desperately seeking work of absolutely any kind to avoid workfare and still fail and be forced into full time slave labour. the numbers are going to be huge and the cynical employers who want to cash in on this will soon wake up to the realities of what they are taking on and the implications on health and safety for example of having very vulnerable mentally ill people there or people who aren't physically capable of doing the work and are injuring themselves in the workplace etc.

so then what - cherry picking? because there aren't gonna be many cherries amongst us i'm thinking.

it will be one long fucked up and incredibly expensive experiment that can only fail long term. political game playing with lives and money.

makes me think of the famine roads...it's not that much of a difference except this is supposed to be the 21st century

thinking about it in the same way as no one is going to employ an ill person with no recent work experience over a healthy one with lots no one is going to choose a sick slave work placement candidate over a well one are they? there's no way they are going to want to take responsibility for the myriad of issues that could arise. and given this is going to be all of the jsa applicants who can't get a job in a recession, all of the disabled and ill who've been moved to jsa after their atos encounter and those in work groups on esa there will be many more people than places so realistically i doubt they'll be able to place sick people in work placements.

SwallowedA I think you possibly have nailed what will happen; apparently there is already a shortage of placements and companies are pulling out daily (yay). Chances of the Placement people opting to prioritise the sick or carers for placements is fairly low, the advisors are after all A) human and B) loking for an easy life like most of us.

But the legislation still needs to go because it is a test run of what will happen under UC and bloody scary.

i still don't understand what UC will be and how it will work.

It's a single benefit (proposed max £70 a week) to replace JSA, IB and ESA. I've forgotten how it impacts on Carer's Allowance. It is both an in-work and out-of-work benefit though they hadn't got around to considering how to apply it to people in work as of last week.

For all recipients, it's to be absolutely conditional on the claimant fulfilling all of the Jobcentre's requirements. Failure to meet them will result in benefit being stopped for up to 3 years. The JC+ adviser has individual authority to apply the sanctions according to the schedule I posted last night.

sorry but what are the jobcentre's requirements? what's it got to do with the job centre if it is for workers and non workers and the disabled?

and how do they justify a long term sick person being thirty odd pounds a week worse off whilst a well off working person is £70 up?

I don't think they're going to pay it to everyone I believe the idea is to use it as a top-up for people trying to get back into full-time work, or on very low wages - like Income Support? (I don't know anything about that.)

The government doesn't know how it's going to be applied in-work, either.

There is someone I know who claims DLA after having had a stress-related breakdown. She can manage a low level of p/t work - nothing like the hefty schedule she was used to in TV production, before she got ill.

Now, her DLA obviously doesn't cover all her financial needs, so she's been doing some informal admin work for a friend on an ad hoc basis. Not earning much, but just about surviving. And then. Someone shopped her to the benefits office. So she's now in trouble, and may lose her DLA.

Now, I don't dispute that she broke the rules. But why is it wrong for her to organise manageable, paid p/t work whilst claiming DLA, but not wrong for the government to send her out to work for nothing, under threat of withdrawal of that selfsame benefit?

Minimaths - I heard that about the Socialist Worker claim - guffaw! If anything, that argument reminded me of the kind of whitewashing propaganda used by communist governments!

Seriously, though. I loathed New Labour under Blair and Brown. But I am beginning to fear that The Coalition are actually a danger to society.

It's not wrong to claim DLA while working.

You can get DLA while working full time. It's to contribute to the extra cost of living with a disability.

Are you thinking of ESA/Incapacity Benefit? That's an out-of-work benefit, but one can do some Permitted Work under it - very limited hours and earnings, so ease back into things or just keep oneself ticking over.

Hard to say anything about your friend without knowing which benefit and the full story.

Oh, maybe I've got the wrong benefit name!

DLA isn't means tested

No ESA for claimants who want to appeal - [[http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/latest-news/1530-no-esa-for-claimants-who-want-to-appeal?utm_source=iContact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Benefits+and+Work&utm_content=23+Feb+2012 here.

No ESA for claimants who want to appeal - [[http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/latest-news/1530-no-esa-for-claimants-who-want-to-appeal?utm_source=iContact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Benefits+and+Work&utm_content=23+Feb+2012 here.

DLA can be a nightmare. My other half was dying of cancer and was refused it, because of an admitted ability to sometimes be able to do the washing up standing up. Had to appeal with a specialist adviser's help.

Arbeit mach frei? Nazi germany?

No. No thank you.