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"Family Life on Benefits" A Case Study Courtesy of the BBC

196 replies

MrPants · 01/02/2012 14:14

I know there have been hundreds of these posts recently, but is this case study typical? Linky is here.

My first thought was that the difference to the household budget, before and after the £26k cap, is going to be roughly the cost of her 200 fags per week habit - a habit which, I reckon costs around £70 per week, I couldn't justify financially.

My second thought was that, if you took away our two cars (needed to get us to work) and their additional associated costs, and the factor in that we pay a moderate mortgage rather than rent in massively subsidised social housing, their outgoings - or crucially, disposable income - look uncannily similar to our own.

I pay income tax in the middle rate and I'm middle class. It's taken me fourteen years of working very hard to get to the level I'm at in my career and my wife and I decided to wait until our careers were firmly established before starting our family and yet, I can still look at this family and think that I'd be better off if I was in their shoes. How can that be right?

What really grates though, is the emotive language used "If they do cut our benefit we are going to have to choose between eating and heating the house properly." Am I right in interpreting that statement as meaning "My wife could quit smoking but she'd rather our kids went unfed or cold"?

It's nice to know that my family is forced, through taxation (backed up with all the threats and force that the state can muster), to go without stuff just so that some unemployed family, who will never thank me for my hard work, generosity and sacrifices, can sit on their arses all day smoking themselves into an early grave.

OP posts:
Agincourt · 01/02/2012 17:58

It's not that easy to just up sticks and move if you have family, own your own home, your partner has a full time job etc. But I imagine these are not the kind of people that are on your hit list of people to feel aggrieved about as they will be claiming little or minimal amounts of benefits anyway (and most people in skilled employment have redundancy insurance etc) I don't know anyone within our circle of friends who expects a job to just land in their lap either. I have been out of work for months and it is not through lack of trying, it's bloody hard atm.

OpinionatedMum · 01/02/2012 17:59

Perhaps his DISABLED wife needs him.

I think people are being hard on him for not working.

Funny this carefully selected example includes a DISABILITY that many ill informed people don't recognise as such isn't it?

Agincourt · 01/02/2012 17:59

Yes, i wasn't really talking about the man in the article, i was talking about my friends :o who none of you will know, i just felt a bit defensive then (a loyal scorpio) that it was seen as so easy for everyone who has lost their job to just go and get another one.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 01/02/2012 18:02

Yeah niceguy it is this family's fault that people on benefit are vilified Hmm

If this family didnt exist in real life they still would in the imaginings of people who want them to.

They might as well be a made up family for all their realness matters to some.

MrsHeffley · 01/02/2012 18:02

Sorry we moved from the SW to the North to keep dp in work.If dp lost his job he'll be commuting to London and living in a grotty bedsit midweek.I know people who rent their house out and work abroad because they lost their job.

If everybody who lost their job only took jobs within a half hour commute of their home there would be no benefits for anybody.

If benefits weren't so good people would move because they'd have to.This level of benefits has made people too complacent.

Dillydaydreaming · 01/02/2012 18:02

But would you REALLY want their lifestyle MrsH - it sounds horrific to me.

Don't forget you are only seeing the bare minimum of information in the article linked to.

I will be out of work soon but won't be living like this family - poverty is more than how much money is coming in however you receive it.

Dillydaydreaming · 01/02/2012 18:04

MrsH, I CANNOT just up sticks and move because all my support (I have an autistic DS) is here. If this woman is bipolar it might be the same for them - we just don't know.

Fact is not every family can just do this.

MrsHeffley · 01/02/2012 18:05

Where does it say his wife is disabled and needs full time care?Plenty of people have bipolar and don't need a full time carer(who would be exempt from the cuts).

Dillydaydreaming · 01/02/2012 18:05
Strawbezza · 01/02/2012 18:05

This family's lifestyle is better than plenty of people who are working. The "eating or heating" comment is laughable, considering the amount spent on fags, booze, Sky, mobiles & pub each week.

An absolutely classic example of the benefits trap. I can't believe neither Raymond of Katherine could have found a job since 2001. But I can believe that it wouldn't have been worth their while to do so.

OhdearNigel · 01/02/2012 18:05

If they didn't get any money to smoke with, they could't smoke. However difficult it is to quit

Agincourt · 01/02/2012 18:07

Well we moved as well, we have moved several times infact but I don't think it has done my career many favours, only my husbands and we have lost out financially too going from homeowners to having to rent privately. My husband has also worked abroad but can no longer do so as he has a dependent who is disabled and as that persons carer I need emotional support off someone else. I may be too empathetic to the man in the article but having a partner who has mental illness, or any illness really, puts a terrible strain on the family. A member of my own family suffered a nervous breakdown and their nuclear family only carried on functioning, emotionally and financially, because they had a full and unpaid support of extended family for childcare etc

DanJARMouse · 01/02/2012 18:08

I cannot believe the BBC published that story.

The figures are skewed for sure.

Anyone on benefits would be hard pushed to spend £30+ a WEEK on a mobile phone and £240 on shopping.

As a benefits family (Husband disabled, receives War Pension, Incap, I claim CB and TC) we spend a LOT less, and have very little left over. We scrape the barrel to pay for the kids to attend Brownies/Rainbows/Martial Arts. All 3 kids conceived whilst DH working FT in the British Army.

I have a budget of between £180 - £200 per week to buy groceries, pay for Gas and Electric (on meters) Fuel in the car (which living here costs 1.48 a litre) and the kids activities. As it is so bloody COLD here in winter, £50 a week automatically goes on the Gas and Electric. £30-35 in the car. Leaves £115-120 to feed and pay for activities. Food bills have soared. Where as I used to be able to do a weekly shop for £50 and a "big" shop for about £80, my weekly bog standard is now £75 and "big" shop about £120. That is buying value products where possible, shopping in Lidl for as much as possible and then getting the rest from Tesco.

I am currently trying to scrimp and save to move my family 700 miles away to enable me to work. Jobs here are minimal with up to 500 applicants for a single advert. A small rural town has little in the way of opportunities. Back south, I will have almost a "choice" of jobs to apply for, and I am not scared of hard work. I have in the past, and will again, work for NMW in a Nursing Home if needs be. I want to uproot my family for my own selfish reasons - to improve my own mental state, to show my children that they have to work for their money, and as my youngest child starts school this year, I will no longer be required to be home all day. I will be able to afford after school clubs if DH is too ill to collect and look after them. We may even one day have a family holiday that isnt in a caravan for 4 days in October or staying with Family elsewhere.

While I dont doubt there are families like the one written about, I would lay my measly excess cash (about £2 a week!) on them being the minority and used by the media to rile up the troops to support the government.

alemci · 01/02/2012 18:10

My step sister has bipolar and is currently doing a course at university. she has worked in jobs in the past.

I know everyone is different and you cannot comment judge everyone's individual circumstances but for Ray not to have worked for over ten years' does say to me that the benefits he receives are too good.

Why has he not retrained. I think it is wrong that there is no time limit and that the money keeps on coming. Will he ever work again?

I think people have a right to ask questions. GB's finances are not in order.

and yes the bankers and offshore fiddles need sorting out too.

Agincourt · 01/02/2012 18:11

you are right alemci, you shouldn't compare illness's or disabilities because most of them have a mild or a severe end and somewhere in the middle. Just because someone with high functioning autism can get a skilled engineering job doesn't mean someone with severe autism will be able to, or ever be able to live independently.

Dillydaydreaming · 01/02/2012 18:12

It won't say if the children's welfare is the responsibility of the father. This can happen if MH is variable.
You obviously know loads of people with bipolar given your statement. The families I have met where this occurs vary and some need lots of support with a partner (Mum or Dad) supervising care of children.

Once again as I have repeatedly said on this thread WE DON'T KNOW. The info is not in there.

Some very judgemental attitudes on this thread about a family you know feck all about except what is in the article which is little more than " ooh look how much money they get" and "look how much they spend on fags".
Yeah I would hope the tobacco consumption will go down but I also hope it won't tip the mother over the edge because if it does the £4k saved by the taxpayer will be chicken feed compared with cost of picking up the pieces.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 01/02/2012 18:13

Why would it be a good idea to make it so people had to move around the country?

How would that be beneficial in the short or long term.

Moving families away from networks of support, schools and neighbourhoods -isnt that what got us into this mess in the first place?

We should be working on building communities not destroying them

Its just a way of punishing people for being poor.

This idea of moving people on seems particularly popular in areas feel are too good for poor people. City centres and pretty rural areas. I doubt there is much call for kicking people out of dreary estates in the suburbs.

I wonder why?

MrsHeffley · 01/02/2012 18:15

I agree moving isn't great(my career is down the swannee) but really that isn't the state's problem.We are waaaaay too reliant on the state,we want it all.Personally I think we're lucky with the NHS we have and the state education system.We just can't have everything.People need to start standing on their own 2 feet.

We're considering a stint in the US and since my research I've discovered even those with top notch med insurance have to pay £20 just to see a GP and all prescriptions(even childrens). Their school system doesn't seem to be a patch on ours either.Going to uni is way more expensive than the tuition fees we're all shocked about.

We're lucky to have our medical system but it has to be paid for,we just can't have a fab NHS,free schooling and benefits for all who want them to the tune of £35K,it's madness.

Many people expect the magic money fairy to pluck cash out of the sky.

Dillydaydreaming · 01/02/2012 18:18

Yes we are hugely fortunate to have the NHS. My relatives in other countries (who likewise have top notch insurance) were gobsmacked by the end of life nursing care my auntie had here. Even with all their insurance they said it would not be the same in their country.

MrsHeffley · 01/02/2012 18:20

If you don't have top notch med insurance(which most don't)the excess you pay was even more,imagine if you're on a middle income with several kids and you all get flu.

We are just too pampered and take everything for granted so much so people think capping benefits to £35K is wrong.Confused.They're benefits not a salary!!!!!

DanJARMouse · 01/02/2012 18:23

But MOST people on benefits ARENT pampered!

PinkoLiberal · 01/02/2012 18:29

Well. I won't even read that case study becuase whilst I doubt that those people exist I only know our family.

My husband works, but only part time s he also studies following a redundancy that ended his career. He should be upping his hours by another 8 soon, so he is getting there in terms of profitability. I am a carer; I worked for a charity before that, but apart from one year following my youngest's birth (before the redundancy) I have been studying towards returning to work, something I hope to do at some level this year, though will not be full time , partly as DH's '24 hours' profitability at minimum wage actually takes more like 70 hours input (such is self employment, am not complaining at all) but also because my own health has suffered and I ended up having a bit of a breakdown this year, when they told us a third child was disabled; I will go back FT, but in stages.

We have enough money, I guess; but that takes into account DH's student income and his earnings. We get tax credits and carer's allowance and we did get a little HB but they overpaid us so we lost that. But we certainly do not smoke, spend very little on ourselves. We run two cars only because I have two special schools to get to and appointments and they are all miles away, usually in opposite directions (we don;t get a motability car), Dh uses the other for college as there is not public transport to get there, and to get to his office. The heating is rarely on; it's a duvet on sofa most nights.

Our standard of living is OK. We've been poverty stricken working poor in the past but that was due to debt; we've certainly been far more affluent dual income!.

But yes we are a drain on the nation's resources, albeit unplanned. We DO both pay tax (I have a business but it is dormant for obvious reasons, I chose not to deregister and keep paying NI as a sign of optimism really).

Anyway what I mean is, i don't understand how anyone on benfits alone can afford lots of cigarettes or anything if they feed their kids properly, send them on school trips and the rest. If like us your children come first then it won't work.

MrsHeffley · 01/02/2012 18:30

As a nation we are pampered if people think free unlimited top notch medical care, free prescriptions,free state education,cut price uni tuition fees,free school dinners,capped water rates (and other things I've missed out such as milk vouchers) + £35K of benefits on top just isn't enough.

If unemployment rises even more there are going to be an awful lot more families entitled to the full whack plus a free NHS etc with less money being paid in.

Where exactly is it all supposed to come from?

NormanTebbit · 01/02/2012 18:31

Fred Goodwin can smoke as many fags as he likes. I bet he rolls with £50's.

lisad123 · 01/02/2012 18:31

i saw this too, it seems a huge amount of money for them, when they are spending it on fags and drink and mobile phones!
£91 on others!! I ceretainly spemnd £60 a year on dds uniforms, with a few top ups in the year.
Im sorry but this is a terrible example, they would be better to lkook at those families who live in london and expensive areas of housing.
I cant believe he has been unable to find any job in 11 years!! I thought you had to show you were looking for work to get JSA?