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"Family Life on Benefits" A Case Study Courtesy of the BBC

196 replies

MrPants · 01/02/2012 14:14

I know there have been hundreds of these posts recently, but is this case study typical? Linky is here.

My first thought was that the difference to the household budget, before and after the £26k cap, is going to be roughly the cost of her 200 fags per week habit - a habit which, I reckon costs around £70 per week, I couldn't justify financially.

My second thought was that, if you took away our two cars (needed to get us to work) and their additional associated costs, and the factor in that we pay a moderate mortgage rather than rent in massively subsidised social housing, their outgoings - or crucially, disposable income - look uncannily similar to our own.

I pay income tax in the middle rate and I'm middle class. It's taken me fourteen years of working very hard to get to the level I'm at in my career and my wife and I decided to wait until our careers were firmly established before starting our family and yet, I can still look at this family and think that I'd be better off if I was in their shoes. How can that be right?

What really grates though, is the emotive language used "If they do cut our benefit we are going to have to choose between eating and heating the house properly." Am I right in interpreting that statement as meaning "My wife could quit smoking but she'd rather our kids went unfed or cold"?

It's nice to know that my family is forced, through taxation (backed up with all the threats and force that the state can muster), to go without stuff just so that some unemployed family, who will never thank me for my hard work, generosity and sacrifices, can sit on their arses all day smoking themselves into an early grave.

OP posts:
niceguy2 · 01/02/2012 14:56

Hopefully you are right foof. But there are many families out there like this and it isn't right at all.

RealitySickOfSick · 01/02/2012 14:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FoofFighter · 01/02/2012 15:01

Many yes. The majority? No way.

RealitySickOfSick · 01/02/2012 15:01

This reply has been deleted

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LadySybilDeChocolate · 01/02/2012 15:01

The cap will help them out then as they will have less money to smoke (although it will probably be absorbed elsewhere). Hmm

usualsuspect · 01/02/2012 15:03

They should all just eat bread and water and live in a cardboard box

stuffthenonsense · 01/02/2012 15:03

Actually i dont think the home ownership point is moot though...particularly as its likely the only thing that is different between the two 'average' families...(and if you add in the extra health costs of the smoking/drinking, it really is a major cost) but i didnt actually mean this family and mrpants, i meant two average families, of comparable types, no additional health needs etc. I think that is where comparisons need to be made.

In the case above, i appreciate they say the wife has bipolar, but there seems to be no benefit provision for this? Why would that be? Surely if she was unable to work because of it and needed him to be a carer then there would be some sort of payment made?
And there is no mention of CSA payments from the NRP of the children living there.
There are details missing it seems.

FoofFighter · 01/02/2012 15:04

They also didn't mention the free bus passes, free tv licence and free goat/llamas you can get too Shock

Dillydaydreaming · 01/02/2012 15:06

Okay folks

WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE BIPOLAR DISORDER?

Would you then like to have an addiction to fags?

A social housing property which might or might not be in a crappy area with loads of social problems?

Would you like to have no hope of bettering yourself because of the care needs of your partner?

POOOOFFFFF!

Happy? No? Surely not!

LadySybilDeChocolate · 01/02/2012 15:07

Smoking and alcohol are a luxury. Not every family on benefits live like this. Would the wife not get DLA if she's bipolar? Hmm I think the reporter made this up to be honest.

Dillydaydreaming · 01/02/2012 15:08

has anyone mentioned "plasma screen" yet?

RealitySickOfSick · 01/02/2012 15:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LadySybilDeChocolate · 01/02/2012 15:10

The 'plasma screen' from Brighthouse? The only types of televisions that Brighthouse sell? Wink

MrPants · 01/02/2012 15:10

To those mentioning her mental health issues, I thought those on benefit were exempted from the £26k cap if they claim any disability allowances. The fact that this family will still feel the effect of the cap suggests that they are not in receipt of such benefits. This line of reasoning is therefore, moot.

Dillydaydreaming The original article specifically refers to 200 cigarettes (and a large pouch of, presumably, rolling tobacco) amongst the weekly groceries.

For those saying that 'long term' my family will be better off, I'd like to point out that I've spent 14 years working to get to the point that I?m at now - the family in the article have been receiving benefits for 11 years. Therefore, for most of the time which I've been working, this family will have had a significantly cushier life than my family has. I've also got 19 years left to go on my mortgage (for my current humble 2 up, 2 down) and have progressed about as far in my career as I'm likely to (dead men's boots hereafter). By the time I'm significantly out-earning them (i.e. when my mortgage is paid off) I?ll be 53 years old. Is that what is meant by long term?

OP posts:
LadySybilDeChocolate · 01/02/2012 15:11

Well said Reality.

Agincourt · 01/02/2012 15:16

I personally was using the fact his wife was bipolar as an opinion as to WHY he may have been long term unemployed.

I presume they would be getting child support maintenance for their children too, one would hope so

Nilgiri · 01/02/2012 15:18

Wife might be eligible for ESA but receiving an award of £0.00.

Unless she has precisely the right NI contributions (and ever being a SAHM or having a chronic mental illness militate against that), she would only be eligible for means-tested ESA, as his JSA and tax credits take the family over the threshold.

In fact, a lot of govt figures for "people receiving ESA" include these people whose award is set at £0.00 (plus credit to their NI record for their pension).

Nilgiri · 01/02/2012 15:21

And no, families are not exempt from the cap if receiving any disability benefits.

ESA (too sick to work), Carers Allowance, an Industrial Injuries benefit don't cause exemption.

DLA (so sick needs help with personal care or serious mobility problems) causes exemption. And I think one other but I can't remember.

OTheHugeManatee · 01/02/2012 15:23

coolas The day the BBC starts spouting 'Tory propaganda' is the day hell freezes over Grin

Sorry, but anyone whinging about choosing between heating and food while adding 200 fags, Sky TV and umpteen tins of beer to the weekly shop needs to stfu and get some perspective.

tabulahrasa · 01/02/2012 15:28

Plenty of people with disabilities aren't 'disabled enough' to receive DLA - which is the benefit that is exempt from the benefit cap, that doesn't mean they don't have a life affecting disability, just that it doesn't affect them in the ways that DWP recognise as significant.

I see the smoking slightly different anyway, yes she's had one failed attempt at stopping, it's not uncommon for it to take a few times to successfully stop, people don't generally out of choice smoke both cigarettes and tobacco, so I'd assume she's aware of the cost and is trying to lower that by mixing her cigarettes with ones she's rolling herself... that to me is not quite the same as someone who can't afford to smoke but is ignoring it, just someone who hasn't managed to quite solve the problem yet.

niceguy2 · 01/02/2012 15:30

Well look at it this way, the government have just given this family a very good reason to quit smoking.

belgo · 01/02/2012 15:31

Is the mother getting treatment for her MH problems? I know many people with MH problems who, with the right treatment, are able to work. Is the treatment easily available where she lives?

I wonder as well why the father hasn't retrained. Virtually all of us have to retrain in our professions as time goes by. An obvious example is a secretary who years ago would have needed shorthand; but now needs computer skills. In IT things are changing very fast and you need to keep up.

usualsuspect · 01/02/2012 15:32

So when they cap the benefit scroungers benefits are they going to give the difference to all you hard working taxpayers ? so you can stop bleating on

usualsuspect · 01/02/2012 15:37

I mean they are not going to stop mr and mrs benefit scrounger £80 a week and say here you are Mr and Mrs taxpayer you have it instead of them are they?

No they will probably spend it on a the Olympics or a some such bollocks

niceguy2 · 01/02/2012 15:40

Or put it towards the deficit reduction?