"Family Life on Benefits" A Case Study Courtesy of the BBC

[MrPants]

I know there have been hundreds of these posts recently, but is this case study typical? Linky is here.

My first thought was that the difference to the household budget, before and after the £26k cap, is going to be roughly the cost of her 200 fags per week habit - a habit which, I reckon costs around £70 per week, I couldn't justify financially.

My second thought was that, if you took away our two cars (needed to get us to work) and their additional associated costs, and the factor in that we pay a moderate mortgage rather than rent in massively subsidised social housing, their outgoings - or crucially, disposable income - look uncannily similar to our own.

I pay income tax in the middle rate and I'm middle class. It's taken me fourteen years of working very hard to get to the level I'm at in my career and my wife and I decided to wait until our careers were firmly established before starting our family and yet, I can still look at this family and think that I'd be better off if I was in their shoes. How can that be right?

What really grates though, is the emotive language used "If they do cut our benefit we are going to have to choose between eating and heating the house properly." Am I right in interpreting that statement as meaning "My wife could quit smoking but she'd rather our kids went unfed or cold"?

It's nice to know that my family is forced, through taxation (backed up with all the threats and force that the state can muster), to go without stuff just so that some unemployed family, who will never thank me for my hard work, generosity and sacrifices, can sit on their arses all day smoking themselves into an early grave.

Manatee - you are wrong, R4 gives the government a soft ride all the time. Nick Robinson stands outside No 10 almost daily giving the party line. This benefit profile is such lazy journalism that it would be laughable if it wasn't so dangerous for all the familes out there merely existing on benefits. Ask yourself where these stories come from? Where is the context, the detail, the background?

yeah right , sure they will

That was to niceguy2

The media is doing a lovely job for the Tories

I just added up. Income = £582.40, outgoings = £567.

So basically in addition to their outgoings which could be easily slimmed down, they also have another £60 a month spare. Not bad when you consider they've accounted for everything including clothes and even white goods replacement.

But the point of the op is not 'give me the money' its more why the hell should i fund this lifestyle. No we dont know all the detail, we never will, and can only guess. But how many of us know families who have difficult circumstances and still manage to work? It is often very do-able, eg i know a family very well who have 5 children, 3 of which are disabled, mum does not have perfect health either, but dad still goes out to work, i know other people who claim DLA and still go out to work (its not an out of work benefit), so its still possible. The comments about this family are based on what has been reported, and the fathers reason for not working was his skill base not being up to date, not his wifes MH, so from that, and that alone, why can he not have worked in 10 years?

Being jealous of someone on benefits is a very odd attitude and fuelled by stories like the one linked to

They didn't include the TV licence - shocked at the Beeb!

So would all those who are outraged at smoking and drinking volunteer to give up their habitual expenses. What about giving up sport activity, or their car, or perhaps they could be persuaded to shop at aldi, instead of Tesco. In fact how about I turn up at your house Mrpants and rake through your life and start telling you how to spend your money.

Yes I get the fact that people think that tax payers money should not be spent on things that seem to be a waste of money, but people are not happy to be told how to live their life, nor are they going to do what it is you think they should just because you say so. Unless Mrpants, niceguy, and all the other hot under the caller posters would like to run the lives of people like the scenario then I suggest they get used to the fact that you have no say at all in what the money is spent on. It is neither relevant to you or is it going to change anything. The benefit levels are as they are not for one family or even for a number of families but for the majority of claimants who need the money to live, unless of course you would like to see that change as well.

Notthefullshilling so true

I have no desire to live their life.......not even for £26k a year which is far more than I earn and far more than I will recieve in benefits (I will be £150 a month worse off in case anyone's interested in the difference between income on work and benefits). My salary wihout benefits is 14k and I am assuming going on benefits WON't be giving me a payrise.

I will be on benefits in 5 weeks time

I have a flat screen TV (paid for from salary)

Don't smoke

Rarely drink

Live in a 9 year old HA house (rent £377 a month which will go to HB once out of work)

Care for my autistic son

Hope that's okay with all you taxpayers out there....... which I have also been for the past 25 years.

Niceguy you have worked hard, good for you and you have something to pass on to your children - these people do not for whatever reason....possibly the mental illness (we don't know - bipolar disorder is rarely a "minimal" condition though). Be grateful you have your health, your sanity and have been able to make something of your life. You surely eould not want to exchange places and have sat around doing nothing....being unemployed that long must engender a sense of hopelessness.

usualsuspect "Being jealous of someone on benefits is a very odd attitude and fuelled by stories like the one linked to"

I'm not jealous of them, I'm just trying to query a system that rewards my 40+ hours per week with a big tax bill and a very similar lifestyle to those who work no hours per week. Taking tax from me makes my family poorer as a result and, in this instance, I am impoverished to the same level as someone from our society who chooses not to work (I use the word 'chooses' because otherwise hey'd have retrained at some point in the last eleven years), nor does there seem to be any impetus or incentive for this bloke to go and get a job. What is especially gaulling is that I know I am wealthier than many who work full time and are trying to raise a family. The implication of that HAS to be that there are many families who work that are in a poorer financial position than the family from the article. I have every right to question this system and this is nothing to do with jealousy, nor is it an odd attitude to take - if you can't understand that, you haven't understood what so many people are getting upset about.

I work for crap wages , taking £80 a week from that family will make no difference to me will it?

I'm more bothered about the richest in society taking the piss tbh

MrPants I sincerely doubt they live anything like your lifestyle. And if people are not envious of them then why does it matter. I am more concerned about a system which provides do little support for Carers that some of us have no option but to not work because believe me when I tell you there is bugger all support.

And possibly this man has never been offered the support to retrain - too much we don't know. What a crappy life to live though.

Yep in an ideal world they would stop smoking and he would find a job. Her bipolar would disappear (because we don't know the whole story, the last case of bipolar I dealt with left the Dad responsible for the children's welfare as Mum's mental health was up and down) and child protection were involved).

All in all it's a crap way to live.

Notthefullshilling Why the hell should I give up my habitual expenses - I have worked for them after all. I'm also the one who worked so that this family can enjoy their habits too. In fact, I and every other tax payer have all worked their nuts off so that this family is kept in beer, fags and sky TV. We're a generous lot aren't we!

In the meantime, those on benefits could at least give us the courtesy of not taking the piss out of our generosity by taking money for stuff that the majority of taxpayers can't afford. Similarly, those that are whinging that we aren't generous enough and would oppose the £26k cap, claiming it will plunge them into famine or hypothermia, had better not be saying that with a fag hanging out of their mouth and a pint glass in their hand else they be tarred with the Frank Gallagher brush.

That's alright, MrPants, I'm happy to subsidise your drinks and fags through the child benefit, tax credits, etc you receive courtesy of the VAT, fuel tax, etc I fork out from my Incapacity Benefit.

You can even type that last post with your fag hanging out of your mouth. I'm truly not that bothered.

Point is as the family in question demonstrate - poverty is about far more than the money you have coming in.

There are a thousand other stories that could be told of a life on benefits.

They dont suit though.

Particularly as the government are busily overturning decisions made in the house of lords regarding welfare reform.

The more stories of families like this, pretend disabled people, children with behavioral problems getting free cars etc the more public support they get.

And people are falling for it hook line and sinker.

OF COURSE they should give up smoking, OF COURSE sky is a luxury.

So troll out a few Jeremy Kylers every week or so, keep the momentum going.

Et Voila! Public gets fully behind the reforms.

Its totally bollock.

'work their nuts off'
'slog their guts out'
'work all hours God sends'

Does no one admit to just going to work these days? Everybody seems to work down a coal mine.

I work, have always worked bar a few years here and there. Some of my jobs have been a bit stressful, some a bit crap, I like to think I have done my best at all of them, i have even worked several jobs at a time - not once would I say I worked my nuts off.

OH did when he was a paramedic, I will give him that. But really how many jobs are there where people are really slogging their guts out?

Nilgiri But I don't drink or smoke - which may be because we don't qualify for any benefits. Read my previous posts - I'm a middle rate tax payer (just) so we take nothing from the state. Please get your facts right before trolling.

'Raymond' is being disingenuous when he says that it's a choice between 'heating and eating' - but I think that's the whole point of the article isn't it?
I guess features like this take the heat off the bankers for a while...

It makes me so cross.

My dp writes software.He consistently looks ahead,adds new languages to his skills at nights and will prob have to do the London thing during the week eventually.

We don't have any TV package(only Freeview),a Tesco payg mobile which cost us £10 yonks ago and we never use,one bottle of £5 red wine every couple of weeks,no smoking.

I have absolutely no sympathy for this family what so ever-they don't need sky,mobiles, cigarettes or alcohol.

I would love their lifestyle which is actually better than ours minus the stress.This is exactly why the cap is long overdue.

Why should you qualify for any benefits of you and your wife work full time, have no children and earn an above average salary?