do you htink its a BAD thing that fathers 4 Justice has been disbanded or not

[cod]

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No it's not Cod. The main ringleaders have convictions for violence and a disproportionate number of the men who have joined their ranks are DV merchants. And plus, the language they used didn't condemn DV - they didn't dare to say outright - "give her a slap if she pisses you off", but they never had anything to say on the subject of violence within families and how damaging that is to children, which given that that's the reason why the tiny number of men who are denied contact by the courts, are actually denied it, ought to have been of some interest to them.

They also never had anything to say on the subject of fathers who choose not to see their children in the face of repeated requests from their exes. Again, given that their whole supposed argument was that the reason they existed was not for self-interest, but because they believed lack of contact with fathers damages children, they ought to have had something to say about this issue.

rhubarb, my dp's mom was like that when he was growing up after she had split from his dad, "your dad's crap", blah blah blah. He actually despises his mother for slagging off his dad when his dad never did vice versa, and has quite an intolerable relationship with his mom now.
She cant understand why, " I was the one that was always there for you etc"..

the most awful thing she could ever do was spill to dp when he was 15 that the man who he always thought was his father wasnt. No sitting down around the table discussing it, she actually told him in an argument when he said that he wanted to go and live with his dad.- "he is not you dad anyway" were her exact words.

Dp has an amazing relationship with his dad, he is an amazing man.

bit off course but the point i was trying to make is- some mothers can be downright spiteful, and it does them no good.

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Caligua excellent posts.

Cod we had our DSS for 5 nights over Christmas. Their mother even drove for 7 hours to drop them off.

What Caligula said was spot-on. FFJ aren't amusing or credible, they are a bunch of women-hating thugs. Women and children are in more danger than ever since FFJ managed to move the agenda on to 'ex-wives are all harpies and fathers must always have access no matter now shit they are'.

Two women a week are murdered by their partners. And they are most in danger when they leave. Tragically women and children have been murdered during contact visits.

There are very, very good reasons why some of these men are denied access and the courts should be focusing on the safety of the child, not the agenda of a bunch of bullies who have managed to grab the headlines.

Oh and something else they never had anything to say about - the widespread non-payment of maintenance by absent fathers. Everyone moans about the CSA, but it's not the CSA's fault my children's father doesn't pay his paltry £5 per week maintenance - it's his.

Another aspect of child welfare F4J are not remotely interested in.

F4J have achieved something. They've caused my wonderful friend to lose custody of her two dd's to their violent and manipulative father. The judge even said he'd been reading about the F4J campaign and sympathised with them. His decision had no bearing on what was right for the children.

I feel very sorry for children that do not get to see their fathers even when the court allows them access
I know every case is not black and white
But I know several very good men who pay their child support and drive miles only to have the door slammed in their face.
I think parents should place their childrens rights (to see their other parent) above their own emotions as regard seeing non custodial parents. And not to points score using kids for emotional blackmail.
My parents divorce made this very clear in my mind.

Is it true that F4J disseminated tips for evading the CSA? Filing change of circs forms all the time, etc?
I wish the lot of them had fallen off their high buildings, cranes etc, and left the real issues of good fathers to men and women with some integrity.

if even half of the stuff you ladies say about f4j is true then they should've bogged off a long time ago.

Sadly, it just looks bad for the dads that do cough up every month for the children they want to see but aren't allowed as the ex wifey/partner is just being a selfish bitch.

the top tip for eavding the csa is to get your ex wife to file a claim
Has anyone actually ever received a payment?

a couple of years ago my mate who lives with his wife and 2 kids, got a letter saying he had to pay £145 per week for his child from a previous relationship. He works part-time and his take home was only £175-£180p/wk. He'd been paying to his ex weekly but he'd always given her cash and they had no written agreement so the csa didn't believe him. He did managed to get it reduced to a more affordable figure.

A diff friend is a single mum of 2. She filled out the csa forms when her second was born 2 yrs ago but the csa say they can't prove he's been working so he hasn't paid a penny to his kids for about 2yrs 9months (he left when they found out about the first and came back just after the child was born and celebrated by making a second then legged it for good). Hmmmmm, don't think he'd have joined F4J do you?

genuine caring fathers who DO give a damn about their kids need a voice

JT, Yes, they do.
I wonder how they feel about F4J, now?

I mean, F4J's long-term committment (not) to the cause and their disbandment just about sums it up, really!

Suedonim, that's terrible. You poor friend.

They may do, Jools but F4J wasn't it. Because F4J weren't the voice of caring fathers, they were the voice of mysogynist abusers. No-one who loves their children beats up their children's mother. That is an act of hate against your children. And no-one who puts their welfare first avoids maintenance payments or fails to turn up for contact visits, or demands that contact be only on their terms as and when they feel like it.

While many of the rank and file members may have had genuine grievances, a disproportionate number were simply abusers who were apoplectic with rage about having had control of their exes via their children, taken away from them by the courts. IMO F4J gave those men a voice.

suedonim thats so sad, so terrible

Can she appeal Suedonim? And submit the judge's reasons? And give the next court some real info about f4j?

You would have thought a judge would be intelligent enough to do a bit of proper research into f4j wouldn't you. But apparantly not in many cases.

I'm sure, just like every organisation there were some unsavoury characters in F4J that doesn't mean they were all w*nkers

and that's the pity of it

No they weren't all wankers, but as an organisation, it was the voice of wankers.

Well said Caligula...no need for me to sau anything then!!

DH wants to add his twopennorth - he is shocked that anyone on a site for mothers would be defending an organisation which advocating fathers refusing to pay child support as a weapon against their children's mothers.

Can't stand F4J myself, but bemused as to what posting your DH's opinion is meant to add.

It's actually not that uncommon Dinosaur. Sometimes people feel that their DH's/DP's opinion might provide another interesting perspective. Don't take it on board if it bothers you

I didn't know they advocated that MOM. And yet perish the thought that women should use contact as a weapon to get a man to cough up what he owes. That of course is evil. Whereas non-payments of maintenance is... no big deal really.