Cap on benefits to 26k- am I missing something?

[buggyRunner]

As far as I can gather it's the normal benefits ie housing/ cb and wtc. This seems like a large sum. Is it accross the board or does it include disability related benefits? Are the figures misleading?

People go to work for reward.

When the reward for working is less disposable income than the same family could obtain via benfits there is no incentive to work.

It's as simple as that. Incentive has to be created.

There are a lot of things very wrong:

High rents = High LHA
Low minimum wage
Infinite CB

I know because of my dd's special needs we have been told that even though they nee their own room, because we own our house, nothing can be done to help us with it. We can't afford to do it ourselves
We would love to move house and buy an apprioate house but sadly we cant as life insurance for dh is massive and no one will give us a mortgage without it.
We have now decided to sell up and rent to give the girls what they need BUT we have been told LA will only pay the going rate for a 2 bed, as that's all we are allowed
So the rest will have to be footed by us. It sucks, but nothing we can do.

I'm just grateful for A roof over our heads right now.

£22k left? Seriously?
I have two disabled children and they both get DLA, but we get no where near that sum maybe it's because dh works? Should say while we don't live in London we do live in herts and that's an expensive place to live

But. When. I. Was. Working. FT. I. Still. Got. CTC. WTC. HB. WTC. WTC childcare element. Council Tax Benefit. To. Top. Up. My. Shitty. Pay. So. I. Could. Afford. To. Rent. In. The. Town. I. Live. In. I. Got. MORE. When. I. Was. Working.

How many different ways can I point out that it's NOT that unemployment benefits are too generous, it is that WAGES are NOT generous enough. Leaving low-paid workers to claim from the state (and therefore the Taxpayer) to cover their essential living costs. Which is NOT what the Welfare state was designed for. But it has been used for that through necessity, since the wages didn't keep pace with the cost of living. Tax Credits are a BUSINESS SUBSIDY allowing employers to pay their staff FAR too little, safe in the knowledge that the taxpayer will pick up the tab.

To solve the issue of an over-stretched state WITHOUT causing a lot of people severe hardship, all that needs to be done is to ENSURE that EVERY employer pays a SENSIBLE LIVING WAGE to every single one of their employees, from the cleaning lady upwards. Then there would be no need for people in employment to claim top-up benefits, thus drastically cutting the outlay on the Welfare State.

But no. Rather than take the method that would cause pain to the PROFITS of a business, they decide to pull the safety net out from under the precariously balanced low-paid. And where is the money that is saved from the changes to the benefits system, the change to UC, going? STRAIGHT BACK TO THE BUSINESSES THAT AREN'T PAYING A LIVING WAGE. Those businesses are being PAID to accept 'unemployed' people claiming UC to work full-time in their business. The Business does NOT have to pay these workers. YOU the taxpayer do. Through the UC they will be receiving. At a rate that will work out as £1.07/hr. Thus ALSO circumventing the NMW laws. Because WHY would anyone employ someone for £6.08/hr when they could be PAID by the Government (the taxpayers) to get someone to do the work FOR them without the same outlay?

It is indentured slavery for the 21st Century. It is a backdoor way of abolishing the NMW laws (and basic employment law, which has ALREADY been changed since the ConDem government were elected) that the Tories vehemently opposed. It is a way of increasing big business profits through the Taxpayers purse. I hope you all enjoy the Britain you are creating.

IUse DP has a friend who has SN. he is 40+ yrs old. lives with his failing mum. he is in many ways capable but really naive - gets signed up to all sorts of things he he doesnt need (phones, tv) runs up debt.

he is not capable to getting his full entitlements. I doubt his mum is either. do they get help from SS? i doubt they get the full help they need - if it is available.

I worked on a homeless shelter yrs ago - lots of people with learning problems. Old people are another group but i need to got to bed.

Yes but maybe I'm wrong but if the tax man is topping up wages to the tune of £26k a year, surely that's reasonable amounts? No matter if they get it from working a naff job topped up, OR earn £26k a year in wages, surely that's enough to manage on?
Yes jobs pay more but it's not the governments place to decide who gets what, they just set the minimum wage.

Huntycat- do you genuinely believe that benefits/top ups etc should be at a level to give people 1800 a month disposable income after rent?

a 'disposable income' of £22k equates to £432 a WEEK in my hand. That's, frankly, BOLLOCKS. Saying that that is 'disposable income' is disingenuous, the phrase 'disposable income' implies that I can spend it on, say, flat-screen TV's and foreign holidays, as opposed to such frivolities as my bus fares, gas, electricity, water, and food.

Lisa You'd get a disabled child premium if your DD gets DLA.

LisaD - that all depends on what part of the UK you live in. I must add that I live in North Essex, not Central London. Though I DO know that the housing association that I am renting from actually charges LESS rent on the properties they let in Central London than they do on the ones they let in MY town. (!). Around a difference of £130pcm. Which, actually, makes NO sense, but there you are.

I assume you mean on ctc? That certainly doesn't make it anywhere near £22k!! We don't get income support or HB or even council tax benifit. We get the girls DLA, one lot of carers and ctc. The DLA goes straight on the girls, specialist schooling, activities, therapies and specialist boots (NHS dont pay for those). The carers normally gets swallowed up by bills, as does ctc and dh wages. This little 2 bed terrace cost a fair sum in mortgage payments, we pay full council tax at £130 a month, water rates, electric and has. We run one car. We don't get free school meal and only the kids get free prescription and dh gets them free as does every cancer patient.

Hunty

Please stop disposable income.

The definition of disposable income is:

The amount of money that households have available for spending and saving after income taxes have been accounted for.

You disposable income is actually much higher than £22K as that's the disposable income after rent has been paid.

Just because you have no choice about some of the things you spend it on, just as I have no choice over what I spend some of mine on doesn't stop it being income that is placed at your disposal.

To keep arguing otherwise is vexatious.

No Lisa - what I meant was that whn they calculate your LHA they will take into account an additional allowance as the disabled child premium. i.e. it should increase the amount of payment you are eligible for.

Wet I think that's the point, it's what we choose to spend money on, rather than what we need to spend it on.
I could not spend dds DLA on their treatments, boots and specialist services, but that's what it's for so that's what I spend it on. If it was a choice between food and a house and their treatment of course I would choose the house and food.
Hunty I know you find yourself in a horrible position but I think no matter what you put, it's going to wash over most.
How old is ds who can't walk far? Have you applied to the wheelchair service?

LHA?

He missed out on a Mac major by ONE POINT in the assessment. You need 100 points, he got 99. And at 8yo, he refuses to go to school in the Mac Major that I PAID FOR myself anyway.

Hmm, that appears to be a US definition of "disposable income", WetAugust - surely what we'd call "net income"?

Here's the definition of disposable income closer to what I'm used to (tho I wouldn't include pets), and that I think Hunty is using:

"mortgage or rent
Council Tax
Electric, Gas and other utility bills
Telephone
Car expenses
Work travel
School fees (school dinners, kids travel to school)
Food
Clothing
Pet allowances
Priority debts
This is not an exhaustive list but the main things to be considered are listed above... What's left is your disposable income"

This definition seems to be the one used in UK articles, where they discuss disposable income in terms of increased cost of essentials, not just in terms of wages/taxes.

Hunty

Couldn't you make another claim for DLA? You seem to have sufficient evidence to support your claim - e.g. the childminder who refused to mind your son etc. It must be worth another try?

Lisa

LHA = Local Housing Allowance. It replaced Housing Benefit. The calculations are complex but take into account your DD being on DLA. Perhaps the council that gave you the information didn't take that into account. Primarily you'd be entitled to a 2 bedroom house but you may find the disabled child premium would permit you to rent a 3 bed.

Thanks for that, I have called but they said nope. Both the girls are disabled but they have still said no. We will make it work

I think you'll find that your list is actualy 'committed income'

Disposable income / net income is income free of tax.

I agree that you would have to spend some on all the items you mentioned however you're also free not to - the choice is yours. But I'd recommend paying the council tax

Lisad, you might be able to apply for a disabled facilities grant to build an extension for your disabled daughter, if the an OT has recommended she have her own room.

Note - I paid the £300 for that when I was working FT. And he stopped using it because he was getting bullied and teased by the other dc (he attends a mainstream school when he's not at home immune-suppressed like he is this month). The school told me he had to 'toughen up' as it was just 'boys being boys'. I'd rather NOT expose my dc to the possibility of bullying if I can help it. I have NO choice over schools - there isn't one with a space in his year group within a 30 mile radius*. He has been on the waiting list for 6 other schools since Reception. He is now in Y3. His school took a 'bulge class' for his year group, and has 90 pupils instead of 60.

I am NOT intending to be 'vexatious', WetAugust. I had a greater disposable income (TRULY disposable) when I was working FT for NMW, due to the top-up benefits I was receiving. Though THAT wasn't as much as when I was working for £50Kpa. Right now, I haven't even got the bus fares for tomorrow morning, so I have to asked a friend to look after DS2 so that I can walk two miles to get DS1 to school in the morning. In return, I am taking HER ds to school with me. I then have to walk 2 miles back. I have £2.86 emergency electric on my meter. Yeah, I'm rolling in it. Feel jealous of me. (?!)

I'll swap my 'disposable income' with you if you will swap and have all my dc's disabilities thrown at YOUR dc, and if you personally take my epilepsy. I'd say that's a fair deal. .

Or, if we are talking about a fit Lone Parent getting the benefits that I get, with fit dc - you take being a Lone Parent, with no qualifications (shit school / no family support through school / not clever enough / whatever reason), unable to EVER earn more than £6.08 an hour, and not enough of THOSE jobs available, NATIONWIDE, for the people that need them, and swap that for having been able to gain enough qualifications to enable yourself to get a semi-decent wage that offers you the possibility of climbing in your career, rather than a dead-end, shitty job, where you get treated like shit, with no chance of progression, knowing this sort of repetitive shit-work is what you're going to do for your whole life. To earn an amount that is so small that you need Government assistance to keep a roof over your head.

Feel jealous if you must. But also think of the situations that have PUT these people there.

And as for the 'fourth-generation workless'. Is that maybe because there ARE NO JOBS FOR THEM?

Where exactly are these mythical fucking jobs that the Tories think are going to magically appear for all these people that will suddenly decide not to be 'workshy scroungers' and go to work? Because I don't see the evidence of them anywhere in My county OR the next one.

My friend works in a well-paid job in London. He lives in Ipswich. He is having to MOVE to Norwich because his older teenage dc CANNOT get a job in Ipswich. He is giving up work in order to move to a place that his CHILDREN can get work. Because he cannot afford the commute. His new job will pay SO much less than his old one that he will have to claim HB and TC's. I think somethig is very wrong with the Tories assessment that xxx amount of people will stop claiming benefits and get a job is untenable when there aren't the NMW jobs AVAILABLE.

Interesting stuff about DLA.

According to the government's statistics, the numbers in receipt of DLA has gone up every quarter since May 2002. Every quarter without exception.

83.244.183.180/100pc/dla/ccdate/carepay/a_carate_r_ccdate_c_carepay.html

Up by one third since then.

Obviously something is wrong here.

HuntyCat, where do you find the proposed rates for Universal Credit?

Also, with your figures, I am not quite sure why you have rent rising from £522.73 currently, to £720 under the new system? I don't see that your rent rise is connected with the new system - you say they could raise your rent at any time?

I don't understand why you think the LHA will only be £480 for a 3-bed? I checked a couple of North Essex Council websites and the rate is around £700 (varies slightly more or less, depending on area).