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Original poster

The "Big Man" on the train - charged with assault.

55 replies

sitandnatter · 22/12/2011 13:30

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2077080/Big-Man-threw-alleged-fare-dodger-train-hit-internet-video-charged-assault.html

I am sure you have all heard about the gobby young man who was refusing to get off the train and a large gentleman offered to help the elderly guard to get the gobby kid off the train so they could all continue their journey. So he grabbed him lobbed him off, his face was quiet seriously cut to be fair.

Now the "Big Man" who was a hero to many standing up to the gobby youth, has been charged with assault. I'm not surprised to be honest, whilst I have a sneaking admiration for his actions it was assault.

I hope the judge is generous with a conditional discharge though.

OP posts:
ThePathanKhansWitch · 22/12/2011 14:16

He was totally out of order, but it in no way excuses the other mans actions.

Planes bit different re: ticketing from trains, no?

suzikettles · 22/12/2011 14:19

Planes are only different because they check you've got a valid ticket before letting you on.

Someone at the departure gate though, refusing to move and let other people through even though they didn't have a valid ticket would be the same though.

Now imagine that happening and it taking 2 hours for security to come and move him/her.

Do you really think no member of the public would get exasperated enough to move them aside?

bemybebe · 22/12/2011 14:23

I am not excusing the other guy, but justice means that they both get what they deserve.

Air ticket example was silly, but I am not sure how I managed to get through my almost 40 years in life and not have a wrong ticket by mistake. When I traveled once without the ticket because I had my wallet stolen (I was 17) I went to the driver, explained and asked to be allowed to travel, which I was.

kelly2000 · 22/12/2011 14:25

The student was argueing with the conducting about whether he was sold the correct ticket or not (when he went to buy a return, the teller told him it was cheaper to buy two singles, but the student claimed he was given two single tickets going the same way -and says CCTV and the records of what was sold will back this up), the conductors attitude was to ignore him and tell him to get off the train. If I had been sold the wrong ticket (as has happened in the past), I would certainly argue back. Then someone else came along and asked the conductor if he wanted help, and then assaulted the student by throwing off the train, and pushing him back off, and seperating him from his belongings including medication. I personally do not like the idea that if I try to explain something to a conductor and get irate, I can be physically assaulted, and have my belongings taken from me by someone twice my size. It is pathetic that some people thing it is ok to physically assault someone if you swear, as if swearing is worse than a violent assault.
It appears the trespass charge against the student relates to him going on to the track. So far it does not appear that the train company have made a complaint to police about him travelling without aticket (which can be prosecuted), or trying to trip the conductor up. As they have complained of trespass, it strikes me that they may not have much of a case to claim he was sold the correct tickets, and tried to trip the conductor (in the video footage, the conductor makes no mention of this either).

ThePathanKhansWitch · 22/12/2011 14:25

Yes, they should both be held to account bemy i strongly agree with you.

bonkersLFDT20 · 22/12/2011 14:30

Why did the conductor say yes when "big man" asked if he wanted to get "gobby" off?

What has happened to "big man's" child's face Xmas Wink

I thought "gobby" was quite good looking (sorry, easily distracted!), but he's only the size of a young boy. Is he really short?

Nothing helping to contribute really, just wanted to join in.

yellowraincoat · 22/12/2011 14:33

People in Scotland are notoriously short, bonkers. It's because of all the deep fried things.

kelly2000, good points.

bemybebe · 22/12/2011 14:39

I did not see anyone here who thinks it is ok to assault.
I think the correct way to handle this situation would have been to allow the guy (what is "gobby" anyway? english is not my first language) to travel to the first station where the guards could meet him to discuss this further. This may not have been practical in the circs.

MrsBradleyCooper · 22/12/2011 14:39

I agree with Kelly.

I was once on a train and had bought a First Class ticket as a treat for myself as it was in the sale. When the conductor came round, I couldn't find it! I searched all through my bag, so he said he would come back in a minute. It wasn't there ( I must have binned it with the outgoing ticket by accident), so he said that I could either pay for it again, or he could fill out a failure to pay notice which I could send off when I got home with proof of purchase (credit card receipt) and they might let me off (they did). He was very nice about it and let me continue to sit in First Class.

Having said that, I was crying getting a bit upset and I wasn't swearing at him and trying to trip him up.

Sometimes it's about attitude rather than rules.

IAmTheTwitch · 22/12/2011 14:53

Can I point out here that Big Man has been reported to the Procurator Fiscal by the police. In Scotland the PF makes the decision to follow through with charges not the police. They may even decide to change the charge the police have put forward after looking at all the evidence.

They also have powers to deal with cases like these by way of fiscal fines where no court time is needed. This is probably how this will be handled if it goes any further.

I must admit when I saw the video I thought the Big Man was a bit heavy handed and the guard should have never allowed him to act in that way. I hope the guard doesn't get away scot free either, his company will have procedures in place to dealwith this sort of thing and I can bet this was not what the procedure said.

Tanith · 22/12/2011 15:02

Am I the only person to feel very uncomfortable with the "Big Brother" attitude that allows perfect strangers to video us on their phones and post it on YouTube? I feel even more uncomfortable that these films are then used to prosecute people and plaster their names and faces across the media.

bemybebe · 22/12/2011 15:07

tanith this is the price for appearing in the public places i am afraid.

bemybebe · 22/12/2011 15:12

Posted too quickly.
I do not see anything wrong with it. After all this very minute I am watching another mobile footage of the conservative MP and the infamous nazi party in a restaurant he attended/organized.

MrsBradleyCooper · 22/12/2011 16:30

Tanith - videos and photographs taken by members of the public are not allowed to be used as evidence - in Scotland anyway, I'm not sure about the rest of the country.

Original poster
sitandnatter · 22/12/2011 17:10

What do people think the "Big Man's" punishment should be?

Normal for an assault or lesser with mitigating circumstances.

I have read that the conductor has been suspended on full pay while they investigate as he gave the "Big Man" permission to boot off "Gobby".

OP posts:
DeePanCrisPandEeeven · 22/12/2011 17:18

yes, he was a bully and committed a criminal assault. The lad in question is also being hauled up for offences ( don't know what they are).

GlaikitFizzEggNog · 22/12/2011 17:20

I personally don't see it getting that far sitandnatter. Yes he shouldn't of acted in that way, but as MrsBC says the video cannot be used in evidence so they would need 2 further sources of corroboration (witnesses or train CCTV). It has also got to be in the publics interest. Also we don't know what he is to be charged with. Assault? Assault with Injury? Breach of the Peace? All of these carry different sentencing guidelines.

Until a decision is made by the PF I don't think we should speculate.

DeePanCrisPandEeeven · 22/12/2011 17:26

well at least Section 39 Assault, but likely to be a public order offence.[pretends to be knowledgable about charging practices]

Original poster
sitandnatter · 22/12/2011 18:05

I don't have a clue how it works in Scotland to be honest. But I don't think he deserves jail time over it.

OP posts:
MrsBradleyCooper · 22/12/2011 18:26

I think it's highly unlikely he will receive jail time. More likely a fine at most I would think.

GlaikitFizzEggNog · 22/12/2011 19:07

Didn't know you spoke legaleese Pan!!

DeePanCrisPandEeeven · 22/12/2011 19:10

I hide many talents under many bushels, Glaikit.Smile Cept in this case I got the country wrong! Section 39 assault is under the Offences Against the Persons Act 1861, in England and Wales, nicht Scotland. [whoops emocion]

GlaikitFizzEggNog · 22/12/2011 21:15

Assault in Scotland comes under common law so the charge would just be assault!

sozzledchops · 23/12/2011 00:02

Strange thing is, if this person hadn't filmed this and put it in tinternet then there's a good chance young gobby guy wouldn't have been plastered over press but went home with tail between his legs and big man wouldn't be facing an assault charge. All sort of backfired and got out of control.

kelly2000 · 23/12/2011 16:17

tanith,
Yes I agree. In actual fact the law is that even if you are in a public space your privacy has to be respected. That is why papers have got into trouble for photographing celebrities going into drug rehab units etc. Yes in a public space you would expect a few people to see you, but not potentially everyone with an internet connection, including everyone you know. Imagine you had gone to an abortion clinic, yes strangers on the street would see you, but would you really think it was right for you to be filmed, and the footage posted around the world giving out your name, job age, etc. In this case the guy who filmed it was a teacher and he went on TV saying it was right the student was assaulted as he was swearing. i really would not want him teaching my children - film people if you think it will amuse you, do nto care about destroying and humiliating them to the world, and if someone swears at you assault them. great lessons. To be honest as he went on Tv supporting the assault I think his employer should suspend him too