Sunday Times article about working women by India Knight.........

[ssd]

Did you read it and if you did what did you think?

FWIW I agree with her, will probably be stoned now.

uwila starts around 8 or 9 mths, reaches an ear shattering peak around 12 or 18 mths.

no 7m or thereabouts.

have a look at this on babycentre

yes, bundle, should have said starts then...

Well no hard feelings h lover. House prices.... yeah astronomical. Renting doesn't even give you more disposable income so you might as well buy. We have a 2 bed flat which ds makes look like a shoebox. Feel v sorry for the lovely elderly lady who lives below as must sound like a herd of elephants. For us, I fear the only option may be to move out of London but that makes me sad as I love the fact that it's cosmopolitan. We are a multi-racial family so it's with much soul searching that I would leave here. In fact I started a new thread on this. Feel v sad and unsettled at prospect of having to move away.

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and i should have said further below that 12m didn't make sense to me in terms of the govt mat leave allowance. obviously individuals are free to take whatever amount of time suits their circumstances.

and i should have said further below that 12m didn't make sense to me in terms of the govt mat leave allowance. obviously individuals are free to take whatever amount of time suits their circumstances.

I thought it was 10-11 months - that's what I've been told by nursery/friends with kids at nurseries.

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Norm - no idea - this article (which I remembered when answering yr post and have just looked up) appears to suggest that they did.

Mothers in jobs that are unsatisfying or emotionally draining appear to transfer higher stress levels to their young children, but spending longer in childcare can help to counter the problem, according to research published today.

In a study of more than 50 nursery school children aged three and four, researchers found significantly higher levels of the stress hormone cortisol in children whose mothers found their jobs less rewarding, or whose work left them feeling emotionally exhausted, than those who reported more enjoyment.

The cortisol levels in children of stressed mothers were almost double those of children whose mothers were more contented.

However, spending longer at nursery appeared to help protect children whose mothers reported low job satisfaction from so-called stress transmission, according to the study, published today in the journal Developmental Psychobiology.

"Spending more time in childcare makes a big difference to the stress levels in children whose mothers have low job satisfaction," said co-author Julie Turner-Cobb from Bath University. "It can help protect children from the effects of their mother's low job quality and emotional exhaustion. Ensuring that mothers of young children have good support in the workplace is essential for supporting both mothers and their children."

The apparent capacity of childcare (the researchers looked only at nursery care) to ease the pressures on young children runs counter to some recent research questioning the effectiveness of group-based childcare. One study, released in partial form in October by the child development expert Penelope Leach, concluded that care by a mother or in a smaller group was better for infants and toddlers than daycare in a nursery.

Dr Turner-Cobb said the findings should not be seen as a fresh assault on working mothers, but as evidence of the potentially beneficial effects of good quality childcare

That study that you quote is about older children though, puddle, and appears to contradict most other findings about benefits of nursery for older children.

Norm, I agree- to be honest they need several control groups of children. At a minimum they need children at home and not nursery, but I also think different age groups would help. I do take the point that the onset of separation anxiety varies, mine were quite different but then like bk and bundle I deliberately chose for them to start nursery before it started. I saw such a difference in the children who started later (and especially at around the 1 year mark) that I would be surprised if there was no difference.

Mine started at 7.5 months and has never cried once when/after we brought him to nursery. Have seen other kids screaming though & as you say, it does seem to be those who started nursery later.

Ruty,

I'm baffled why you'd thinking I was having a go at you. Did my post not come across clearly enough that I thought it was important not to be ripping strips off each other? I said everyone has to make sacrifices, and make the sacrifices they deem acceptable to their family. One person in debt has a double income because they determine that's what they need to do, and that's the sacrifice they need to make. You've chosen to forgo that and stay at home, which personally I think is a good choice. I'm sure you're not burying your head in the sand about the debt issue, you've just decided to make certain sacrifices at this point in your lives. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
Last thing I expected was someone to take something in post as an attack.

at idea of either dd longing for a break from me - i wish

none of those studies can possibly control for all the factors involved in working and childcare. significantly, very few include details of the fathers' working hours.

there is one study which shows that children do best when the mother is working the way she wants (whether that's full time, part time, SAHM). which makes a lot of sense. my children would probably not be happy with me full time at home being all grumpy at them.

also, all that about 1-1 care assumes the baby is at home getting that. i have 3 small children and often look after my toddler neice as well, my 1 year old gets more attention and 1-1 care in her absolutely lovely nursery with a low baby-staff ratio. at home it's just a zoo compared to the order and calm at nursery (she loves it, but she is only 3 days a week).

well, I'm glad I started this thread (even though I've ruffled a few feathers)

it's certainly got us all talking.

what could be more contentious - a working mother thread or a breast v bottle thread?

and don't even start me on house prices................

BTW it's true what a lot of posters here have said, the dad's do get off lightly don't they?

sep anxiety pretty normal around 10 mths - i see a lot of children in my daughter's nursery start at diff ages and below 8 mths they seem to settle quickest/quietest and adapt well. some of the 2 yr olds have a very hard time, i think that's a bonkers time to start at nursery. imo, obviously

dd had a nanny share from 4 months and started nursery at 1ish. Never had any anxiety issues/tears or anything. Don't know whether that's beacuse she started outside or non-parental care early, or beacuse she's just very laid back.

Going to be starting ds (16 months) 1 day a week at nursery. he wouldn't settle with a childminder so I'm hoping the group environment will be more a more positive experience for him.

well praire muffin i guess i have my own worries about whether i'm doing the best for my family, so when you said, 'if you're heavily in debt, it may be the best for you to have two incomes, this is infinitely preferable to financial ruin' it kind of raised those worries again! It seems we all feel sensitive about whether we are making the right choices. No, we aren;t burying our head about the debt issue, but we both feel at the moment it is most important that i am with ds, for various reasons. No hard feelings!

Haven't read all of this but has anyone done any research into what kind of adults emerge from environments where they have had the exclusive care of one of their parents.

The concept of staying at home and lavishing loads of attention on a child is relatively new. In the past either both parents worked or if the woman stayed at home she worked effing hard much harder than we probably do today.

My mum stayed at home but I never saw her. She worked non stop either helping on the farm or working in the home. For the first few years of her marriage she had no electricty, no gas, no running water and no MN. I on the other hand have every modern gadget at hand so I can sit on the floor with little one to my hearts content. Is this really natural?

'Am I the only idiot who got this far in life before he/she bought a piece of property.

I do think about leaving the UK. I like it here but I just can't bearing having nothing for the rest of my life. '

No. I'm in the exact same boat. And I feel the same way. I sometimes think the lack of space contributes in some ways to my PND, especially b/c I grew up with more space around me. Lately, I've started to consider it all far more often . . .

You're far from alone.

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excellent point drosophilia - so true.