Sunday Times article about working women by India Knight.........

[ssd]

Did you read it and if you did what did you think?

FWIW I agree with her, will probably be stoned now.

What I don't understand is why it bothers other mothers that I DO want wrap around childcare. It starts in my house at 6:30am and finishes at 7:00pm. My children are happy. And that's what matters.

And I'm fed up with other members of society (on and off of MN)telling me what I work so hard for is wrong. I work bloody hard and at the end of the I deserve to be applauded not condemned.

I agree uwila - and would reiterate the point made on this thread a long long time ago - no one mentions these issues to dads do they? I don't feel that I deserve applause for my choices (although oddly I do get quite a bit at work), but I really don't see what business they are to anyone else - it's not as if I go around advocating my choice to anyone else. I might occasionly say that having a nanny is the most fantastic luxury - but that's not the same as saying everyone else should have one too, let alone anyone else is bad because they don't. Still it's been an interesting thread!

I agree with blu, prettybird and tangerinecath wholeheartedly. We mums feel enough guilt as it is so I really get f**d off when these 2 camps proceed to slag one another off. Some of us do not have a wealthy dh but we love the one we've got . Therefore some of us have to work full time (even though we'd like to spend more time at home). My dh is a fantastic dad who is adored by our 18mth ds. I work as a nurse and squash a full week into four days by working an assortment of shifts. On the 2 days that I work 07.30 - 21.00 ds goes to nursery 07.30 - 17.15 when dh collects him & they have great fun together (mind you, dh looks knackered by wednesday!). On Wednesday he goes 07.30 - 15.00. I do not work Thursday or Friday so he is with me. I work one weekend day and dh looks after him. As far as I can tell, the only people who suffer in this arrangement are dh & I who are mostly knackered and don't get much time together. Ds can't get into nursery fast enough & sometimes looks disappointed when I collect him!! He is a vivacious child who loves being in a busy environment. If I escape judgement from the kennel bashing brigade maybe I will incur some from the 'your child needs a strict routine' lobbyists. If I get a community nursing job I can work more civilised hours but have to put ds in nursery 5 days a week 8.5 hrs a day. That also increases childcare costs and reduces my income considerably as shift work pays better. Most of us do the best we can in circumstances where there are limited options. Some of you are very blinkered.

When these threads get going I always feel the woman who work a lot and leave their kids in daycare are really hot on protesting their right to work and leave the kids whilst saying they don't give a damn about anyone's opinion of them. But the protesting seems a bit much, if you are so happy why get so het up about it?

Also SAHM's are presumed to have a rich dh and a lot of choice in what they do! If only. A lot of us are probably on the poverty line!

ssd - I think the point is that neither SAHMs or WOTHMs should be blasted for their choice, and unfortunately threads like this do end up with some people being very critical of others' choices.
We're all in this together, doing the best for our little ones, so why pick on each another?
Now, big group hug all round!

(formerly Imafairygetmeoutofhere)

Actually SSD, I don't feel the need to justify working full-time at all - nor do I get het up about other people judging for for doing it - hance why I usually ignore these threads entirely. W

hat however does really p**s me off, is when people such as yourself suggest that because I do what I do, I obviously have no relationship or 'connection' as you put it with my child....now if that's not being judgemental given that you don't know me from Adam, then I don't know what is.

I'm with you Handbagaddiction.

Why does working suddenly make me less of a mother and that I will have no relationship with my child?

We should stop putting each other down! Everyone has to do what is right for them and their own families.

Of course if I did WIN the lottery I know what I would be doing....

SSD, you don't sound particularly happy to me.

expecting - I am afraid that it is you who are blinkered if you think those of who do not work full tim "have a wealthy dh".
that is, if I might say so, a rather sweeping and offensive statement.
as it happens we live on a very reduced income but mainly on savings built up from me working all the hours in the world for years to save up. one day they will run out.

Right should we start 3 new threads? One for SAHMs. One for WOHMs. And one for people who want to play nicely with peopl who belong in the other group.

I think India Knight knew full well the controversy she was stirring up. And this thread gives her a bit more credit than she deserves.

Okay I admit I havn't read the hwole thred but just wanted to add my two cents worth.

I know others have made this point before me, and probably structured it more coherantly, but why the concentration on mothers? my child has two parents so why isn't his dad pillored in the press for his decision to work 9very) f/t

I am nto keen on nurseries f/t (ie 8-6pm) for children but thats my preosnal choice and given the costs of childcare I can see how difficult it is. I work 3 days a week plus see private clients on the 4th day and pay a nanny for those 4 days.
Obviuosly yesterday when i left at 8.30am and got back at 8pm made me a bad mother despite the fact that my husband was home at 5.30pm to play/bath/supper (my homemade orgnaic food that I stay up til 11pm making) and bed and I was up at 3am and now taking some of my precuios annual leave to be around today.

(btw apols for any spelling mistakes - very very tired today!)

i'm amazed at how divided these threads become, and how much Working mums feels they have to justify themselves. You shouldn't have to - and on the other hand SAHM shouldn't be made to feel like taking an easy option - because it really isn't. The real problem here is the government, what a shame we don't focus all our energies on thst instead of getting at each other.

nah, the real problem is the men. where are the fathers in all this.....

Good idea uwila! I'll join you on the working mums thread.
Big thumbs up to Nooka, Elsbells, handbagaddiction too. Am currently considering childcare options for my 2nd (due April). But I'm pretty sure it's ging to be fulltime so this thread has been quite surprising and rather upsetting reading. I am fulltime but have chosen a much less prestigious company to work for simply because its location means I can usually drop dd at school.
As I've said before I'm friends with quite a few SAHMs (through dd's school) and we've never been critical of each other's childcare/child relationships. There are always more interesting things to talk about!!

the real problem, I reckon, is the house prices
so many people I know are enslaved by their mortgages
[generalising wildly of course]

no wonder nothing ever changes in this country...

the real problem is also the long working hours.

the difficulties of getting part time work.

the constant media articles working up mothers into a guilt trip just to get an article out.

etc.

lots of real problems.

yes, HC..mortgages are criminal here. We could afford a house in Europe but can't even afford to keep our flat going here. Blame the estate agents!

the presentee culture
and Thatcher of course

of course!

Blame estate agents and Thatcher? I like it! Can I blame them for the lack of heating in my office today too?

I agree very much with Harpsicord on the house prices.... however, new thread topic? If you start it, I will join it.

I sent an email to David Caeron on this subject last week. Haven't heard back. I wonder what his policy will be... or if it's even on his agenda.

I agree with Harpsi, lots of problems go back to mad house prices. The presentee culture is driven by fear of losing your job and then your house.

I have a tiny mortgage, so I know that difficult though it may be, if I lost my job, I wouldn't lose my home. So I'm not scared of losing my job. So I don't need to be a presenteeist. But for most people, losing their job presents the very real threat of being homeless.

Is there anyone though who actually prefers as their first choice to work full time with their children in nursery 8am until 6pm?

This is the biggest thread I have seen on here - this arouses passions obviously!

I have noticed that people are very quick to justify their choices but do not address specific points, such as the scientific research quoted about the physiological impact on very young children and babies of being in day-care (increased cortisol in the system ie increased stress). I totally respect people's right to make their own choices but I wish people would look at it completely from the child's point of view - so many say "I would go mad if I had to stay at home all the time". Well, fine - good. But I wish people had the guts to sometimes say "It's not ideal for my child, but it's what I want to do". And for those who think nursery IS ideal, then great. But be open minded - keep up to date with the research that tells us how it really is for kids in daycare.

Unfashionably I do agree that sacrifice is part of the parents role when kids come along. I believe that kids want time and attention rather than lifestyle or even education - in the early years.

I feel everybody's choices are fine just so long as we are honest with ourselves about why we make them, and keep a genuine eye on how the children do with them.

This whole passionate debate is fuelled by the government's approach to families - get parents out there working and contributing to the economy rather than valuing them to stay at home. If we had a system more geared to supporting parents to be at home then more people would make this choice.