Sunday Times article about working women by India Knight.........

[ssd]

Did you read it and if you did what did you think?

FWIW I agree with her, will probably be stoned now.

there is one piece of research that favours day care - apparently your child is at a decreased risk of leukemia the earlier they start daycare - the best being from 3 months old!

Of course have read about the cortisol issue. Wonder if it also applies to kids in other circumstances?
Also wonder if it applies to childminders or nanny shares. The information hasn't been informative enough for me IYSWIM.
Strangely I hated being at home with my mother as a small child but she was a bit mad and maybe if it had been these days, social servcies might have stepped in.

Wasn't there a piec of research about a year ago that said children who go to nursery/preschool do better in school the following years... or something like that. I don't remember the exact findings. does anyone else remember?

And what is this cortisol research? Somebody enlighten me, please.

Bound to have been Uwila. There are always pieces of research!

And tonton raises a good point. Not all children's homelife is lovely. Some homes are most certainly worse for children than their nurseries. Some people who have children don't have happy blissful marriages.

I guess it all goes back to how rediculous it is to think there could be a one size fits all approach to all of our lives.

The latest big one from what I remember is saying that before the age of 2 nursery or group care is bad, after about the age of 2 group care is in general good and better than not attending social group care.

I liked that particular piece because it confirmed my prejudices. But I'm sure there'll be another piece of research along in a moment which will completely disprove all of it. Hence the need to take absolutely no notice of research at all unless a) you like it and/ or b) it has been done several times over by several different groups and still keeps throwing up the same results, so can more or less be trusted.

So what about nannies and childminders. Is that group care? And what was the quality of the care in the nurseries used in the study. Were these kids neglected in the nursery or properly cared for?

Well, I've never used a nursery -- not even for a day. But, I have spent more than my share of time at my office. I certainly will never be accused of being part time round here.

Caligula, as someone who uses a lot of research in my job, I couldn't agree more!! I can usually find something to support almost anything i want it to. My mother has a video by a 'scientist' on why the theory of evolution is wrong!!

All the research I have read is pretty negative about f/t nurseries for under twos. Nannies and childminders seem less stressful options for small children. Older children do strongly benefit from nurseries, according to just about every study. The research is remarkably consistent actually, I think.

research is useful only when setting public policy imho i.e. on a large scale
on a small scale i.e. making decisions for yuorself and your family, it is clearly a very small part of the decision making process when compared to the other factors in particular your own judgment about what is right for your child

Nannies isn't group care, it's one to one, so is good for under 2s.

Childminders are more difficult to define - some of them are pretty one-to one with babies, depending on how many charges they have, while others run a much more group care kind of set up. But because it's home-based, the dynamics are less institutional than most group care set ups, and I wonder if the research took account of that (and how would you even begin to measure the difference environment makes).

I don't feel that full time care in a nursery is the best thing for my dd but unfortunately it is the best thing I can do for her at the moment. Unfortunately I earn more than dh so I'm stuck with working full time atm. He's due for a promotion though so fingers crossed, I'll be able to cut my hours slightly then.
I have suggested to dh that perhaps he could cut his hours but he's not really willing. He can be old fashioned sometimes and I think he feels that it is his place to provide for the family financially. Anyway, this would not solve the problem that I miss dd dreadfully when I'm at work, regardless of who looks after her. Dh feels that his home/work balance is fine as it is.
I honestly believe that everyone does the best that they can for their kids, whatever their decisions on childcare may be. No-one should be made to feel guilty for what they choose, and no solution is perfect imho.
I am having huge problems at work arranging hours that mean I can spend any time with dd at all. I'll be starting another thread on what's going on there - feel free to drop by there and see what's going on.

Blu - I have enquired about childcare vouchers but our crappy HR department are (allegedly!) going to get back to me. Time to chase them up methinks!

I'm just sad that this topic, online and offline, so often descends into women tearing strips off each other.
For the record I'm a SAHM, home-educating, I don't think getting into debt is ever a wise plan, and I don't picket local nurseries throwing eggs at the mums picking their kids up.
Yes, budgeting can be a nightmare in a society geared to two-income families, but there we go. Everybody makes sacrifices when they have kids, and it's a highly specialized issue as to what those sacrifices may have to be. If you're heavily in debt, it may be the best option for your family to have two incomes. This is infinitely preferable to financial ruin.
If parents decide they both want to/need to work, that is entirely their own free choice. I might disagree that it's always neccessary or desirable, but I'm not about to demonize them for it.
And conversely, I don't stay at home because my husband earns a packet and I'm lazy. I see this as my vocation, I find it mentally stimulating and 100% worthwhile, even though it takes an enormous amount of sacrifice to do. And I think it's sad when people attack SAHM for all the reasons they do too.

What I find saddest of all is when people feel trapped into a situation, or worse, just follow along with the perceived 'way of doing it'. I think the ideal would be everyone truly being able to choose the course they were sure was best for their family, without the need to validate it by criticizing others.

tangerinecath, any chance of finding a childminder if you are not really happy with nursery for your daughter?

I'm currently looking for a nursery for DD1. She's 2.5 and tbh she'd be MUCH better off in a nursery. She's bored at home. Even the paediatrician suggested she go to nursery at least part-time.

I think once kids get to a certain age they benefit immensely from being around other kids more often.

Wow, this is a huge thread! And I think it's really difficult for anyone to read it and not feel 'got at' from one side or another for their choices.

When I was a tot my mother made the choice to stay at home with me. It was what was expected in those days. She had really bad PND and it didn't go away, she just cried all day and she's told me since that she was very close to committing suicide. Then my Dad suggested she went back to work when I was 4. All my earliest memories of my mother up to the age of 4 are of her crying .

Anyway, she went back and all of our lives got much better. Her depression lifted, and my sisters and I had a happy childhood from the time she started working full time onwards. We had childcare, and then went to school from 8am to 6pm Monday to Saturday. No after school club - we just worked hard at my school! and yes, school on Saturdays, I felt very hard done to! But I never regret working so hard at school, I feel lucky to have had such a good education.

I really sincerely wish she'd never given up work, for her sake and for all of ours. It didn't cause the PND but it dragged it out. She's a ridiculously intelligent woman, and staying at home was like keeping a tiger in a tiny cage, she was bound to start tearing herself apart.

I also really object to the idea in the article that fathers don't feel as attached to their kids as mothers - definitely not true for my Dad or my DH.

I adore my parents, my Mum is the best Mum in the world as far as I'm concerned, and I had a very happy childhood as soon as she started work, as did my sisters. And my parents are still interesting people who I have a lot in common with, unlike most people over 70. My DH is going to go part-time when our baby is born, and I'm sticking to full time. And if anyone doesn't like it, they can... go ahead and live their own life

That's a great post becster. As someone who suffers badly from depression that is my greatest fear (being like your mum). I took the summer off last year, just 3/4 months or so, and I dwelt far too much on stuff and started getting depressed again. Glad it worked out for you and your Mum in the end.

good post prairie muffin, well put

I'm with both thebecster and prariemuffin. Isn't motherhood (which ever way we do it) hard enough without us attacking each other for making different choices? We would all (I hope) agree that we are individuals with individual needs and individual situations AND UNIQUE children. I find it difficult for someone who has never met my children or my family to feel that they can stipulate how best to ensure my family's happiness.

Sweeping statements always have exceptions (statement in itself ) but on the whole happy parents have happy kids. So if anyone ever asked me the best way to raise children - what will make you happy, what will make you content?

my goodness aloha

I think that is the first time I agree with research that you have quoted

well praire muffin it sounds like you are judging me now.We are in debt, but i choose to stay at home for the sake of my son. I don't judge anyone for the choices they make. Please don't judge mine.

bollocks to it and bollock to anyone who agrees with it. couldn't even finish it and couldn't read this thread. dd goes to nursery 2 days a week and i wish i could stay at home and be sanctimonious (or learn to spell!) but i can't and this sort of guilt ridden sh*t from a wealthy spoilt harridan is the last thing i need.

lol pesme

you should send that to her

harpsichord lover it's a pity you feel the need to get personal. I was making the point that some people using the site could or would not accept that individual circumstances often dictate whether people do or don't combine work with childcare. If you inferred that I was directing this at you, that's your issue I'm afraid. As for saying I don't have a wealthy husband, well I can see how that might have seemed that I was generalising about SAHMs but that wasn't my intention so I apologise. Actually I was following on from someone elses post (which also wasn't generalising). H lover, I've no doubt that you have made significant sacrifices by not working but the fact is that you are able to live on one wage and savings. We have never earned enough to save and all our income goes on the basics. There are no luxuries and no holidays (though we are thinking of moving out of London so that should help)and we also sacrifice much (but I'm not moaning about it). I don't have any issue with SAHMs - I admire them. I made the point in my last post that I just feel that we should not attack each other as mums feel too much guilt as it is.