Sunday Times article about working women by India Knight.........

[ssd]

Did you read it and if you did what did you think?

FWIW I agree with her, will probably be stoned now.

stinkweasel may I just agree with you again before I go to bed please?

yes indeed mememe that's all I think about
it wasn;t a spa though, sadly

Ew, spas - strangers rubbing salty things into you or putting rocks on your back and chanting. Weirdies.

hinker you and blu are just weird
what could be wrong with a spa?

I repeat - strangers rubbing you. Bits of you that you don't want to think about, let alone let a stranger rub. Weird.

hunker you have pinched my word! weirdy.

chanting?
now what kind of spas have you been to?
ones run by the Greek Orthodox church presumably

actually I am bored with this thread so am going to hijack it to ask hinker

1. got you bleeding flowertots stuff yet or what?
2. why aren;t you in labour?? bored of waiting for your baby to arrive now. come on come on...

No, no Tots stuff But Champs is chasing it!

Not in labour specifically to annoy you

honestly, the 'is nursery little better than kennels' type of angst is a phase some mothers of preschoolers go through - IME anyway. After a few years of your children being at school, I bet few of you will spend time angsting over whether it was evil to have put them in nursery/with a childminder for 5/4/3/days a week or whatever. e

Go with your gut feeling and the here and now. If your child is happy with their carers (whether it's nursery, childminder, house husband etc etc),you are happy they are being looked after well, and you and your child are happy when you are both together THAT IS ALL THAT REALLY MATTERS!

After that, aim for a balance between outside work and home that suits you, too - that's my advice, anyway.

My instinct is to say that 10 hours a day 5 days a week is too long, particularly for younger children. But, Like IK I'm very very lucky in my work & my childminder - I took redundancy rather than be bullied into going back full time too soon and was lucky enough to pick up clients which eneabled me to carry on working freelance, from home, and have DS picked up at 9am and back with me by 4pm for lots of 1-on-1. If I'm ill, then I ask his childminder to keep him on till he can be brought home between 6 and 7 and I do feel that's too long a day for him at 2 years. BUT, I had wraparound childcare when I was little (from about 2.5) when mum was back at work teaching and I distinctly remember being quite happy with the arrangement. It's easy for the likes of IK in her ivory tower & fluffy mules to make blanket judgements, but each child responds differently, and it's up to parents to make decisions in the best interests of their child. If they're clearly miserable then changes and maybe sacrifices may have to be made - but the very fortunate likes of her (and me) shouldn't make harsh criticisms of people in different & difficult situations.

the article in the Sunday Times Style Supplement really got on my t*ts. It claimed to be a neutral summing up of the 'rivalling' styles of parenting - Ford versus, oh I can't remember, but it made out every other style of parenting to be hippiefied weeing on the floor kind of parenting. Really annoying. Its interesting though, [question] how many mothers feel forced to go back to work because of financial contraints? I saw a TV news item about how in France they are paying parents 12000 euros per child - here they asked the work and pensions minister whether they were thinking of introducing something similar - the answer was an outright 'No.' Instead they see the answer as more mothers going back to work sooner. But do mothers actually want to? Some do maybe? But if we are taking part time jobs, downshifting careers for the sake of paying the bills and having a family too, would we rather go the French way? Speaking as someone who is heavily in debt and renting our her flat in order to stay at home [no judgement here, just what is right for my son] i would rather go the French way on this issue.

Thanks to the responses to my post yesterday. TBH it was a bit of a rant which was sparked partly by the fact that the company I work for is trying to stop me from working from home two days a week, for no other reason other than they're mysogenistic @rseholes. DD still goes to nursery when I work from home but travelling time is cut out and we get a couple of hours play time together. I'm currently going through an appeal prodcedure on the decision, following rejection of a formal application on the back of the Flexible Working Regulations for Working Parents. So this subject is a bit of a raw one at the moment.

I try very hard not to beat myself up about dd's nursery attendance as she's very happy and settled. I think I miss her far more than she misses me . I'm looking forward to her being 3 so that we will be able to claim the nursery grant, I'll then be able to cut my hours. I shouldn't wish her babyhood away though, should I...

aelita - your post was very refreshing, someone who has an opinion but is prepared to bear in mind that people in certain circumstances can't live to your own ideal. Thank you, and also thanks to everyone else who expressed similar views.

Hi,I've read quite a lot of comments but not all so sorry for that but I haven't time at the moment.I have to agree in basic with Hunkermonker and lovecloud.It's a hard desicion to make to put your child in nursery when they are so young I'm sure.But there have been studies that say it's not good for young children to be away from their parents for such long times especially the under 4's.I have 2 children 9 and 11.My dh works for local government so doesn't get paid all that well.Even though unlike me has been to university and has a degre.He very much has a career but one in which the majority of his collegues are women.I don't have a career due to mental health problems.I have skills though so work part time in a low paid job.I always wanted to do the right thing by looking after my children myself and dh too.So you could say I am a stay at home mum who goes to work part time but unsociable hours.When I am at work dh takes over.I feel very proud we have brought our children up this way by taking care of the ourselves which I beleive to be the best way.We are always overdrawm each month.But I am happier knowing we have done the best for our children.When they finish school I am there for them still.It hasn't been easy for me but that is the scrifice I make for my children.In an ideal world we would all be paid better so we had more choices.

I would LOVE the opportunity to be a stay at home mother. I am coming to the end of my maternity leave (8 months in total not a full year) and am feeling anxious about having to leave my son BUT it is something that we need me to do as a family.

There is a difference between being skint and unable to pay the bills or mortgage.

My partner and I currently own a 1bd flat and trying to save to get a bigger place. Is that so awful? And most importantly is that considered a LAVISH LIFESTYLE?

Can't believe that other people feel the need to call this bad parenting instead of supporting women like myself.

I am trying to be the best mother I can and feel guilty enough as it is that I will soon be leaving him at nursery without having to hear more criticism.

As for waiting for a "better time" to have a child my best friend did that. She waited until she and her husband were financially secure with a place that had room to expand. After a 1 1/2 years of trying and another year of hospital appointments she found out she left it too late.

of course its not awful Ellsbells. What is awful is that mothers are forced into having to make such decisions, just to keep their one bedroom flat. That is shocking. We decided to rent out our one bedroom flat in London and move in with our Dad so that i could SAH. But our decision was specific for us - my ds has severe food allergies and i could not trust a nursery to follow his diet and get him enough nutrition, and also after we had done the sums on how much i might earn and how much childcare costs it would not have been worth it anyway. But why does the government get away with forcing mothers into such impossible situations? I think we should use our political clout. [what political clout? Well, its time we started clubbing together!]

Childcare costs are incredibly high and we really had to make sure going back to work was "worth it" and unfortunately it is.

I am not going back to work to continue a stellar career (I am a PA at a media company, hardly a high flyer) just to make ends meet.

Thanks for your support Ruty! That is what women need.

The government want women to work to help the economy. They don't give a stuff about women or about children, just about having more taxpayers money to spend. They have this great cover story that women want wraparound childcare - I mean why not make it 24 hour childcare by an institution, why stop at 7am to 7pm?

They say wraparound childcare is what we want. Is it hell. Most of us want to be able to afford to stay at home if we choose and we want to find reasonably paid part time work.

I agree with twirlaround. Hardly anyone actually wants to work f/t when they have young children.

Just to be contrary, I will say that I do want wrap around care - an after school club would be great! Many people on mumsnet use them, and most of them seem to be happy to have that option. The primary school which my two attend is very good, and I am happy with it, but for some reason it has no out of school provision at all. Other primary schools in my area do, and I would like mine to do so. (I also see the local secondary school finishes at 2.30! I would very much like those kids to be occupied after school instead of frightening smaller kids on the bus as soem of them do right now). Like most parents I would like a feeling of more choice.

Tangerinecath - you sound v clued in, so have probably looked at nursery vouchers? Cost neutral for employer, abut tax savings can make you better of by about £800 a year.
And it doesn't have to be through a voucher system, either; your employers can simply contract the nursery direct to give you £217-worth of nursery care a week, pay the the £217 direct to the nursery and you don't pay tax or NI on that moey.