Sunday Times article about working women by India Knight.........

[ssd]

Did you read it and if you did what did you think?

FWIW I agree with her, will probably be stoned now.

Just because I appreciate the concept of me time doesn't mean I say "I neeeeeeeeeeeeeeed meeeeeeeeeeeee time." FGS.

Just because I appreciate the concept of me time doesn't mean I say "I neeeeeeeeeeeeeeed meeeeeeeeeeeee time." FGS.

For me, quality time implies scheduled time fitted into your busy diary to do something that neither of you enjoy.

But I realise other people's definition may be different.

i have spent most of today letting ds watch cbeebies..... and i disapprove of tv for little ones, but am in pit of despair (due to being sahm in part) and cannot bring myself to muster and enthusiam at all. just suggested to ds that we go swimming....he doesn't want to....my damaging him is complete.....

yes wordsmith
I was joking
never mind

That's a weird definition, Caligula. Don't think I've ever heard that one before! I presumed it meant spending time with your kids when you can focus on them and not the washing up!

Nah - it means doing something improving that you both hate instead of being allowed to watch the Simpsons together!

lol caligula

Donnie your tax example doesn't work for me, I'm afraid. DH and I both work (him full time and me part time). If I didn't work but he earned my salary on top of his and so was paying that at 40% tax, OK we would have a higher tax burden but the £500 plus a month childcare bill for those 3 days would be removed. Also he would only be paying 1% NI on that instead of what I have to pay.

I've just read some of this thread and it has left me in tears
My dd (18mo) is one of those "poor abandoned children" who goes to a "kennel" from 8.30 to 5.30 every day. I honestly have no choice in this, dh and I both have to work full time in order to make ends meet. All you ladies who say above that you stay at home and get into debt because it is "the right thing to do for your child/ren" make me so mad because this isn't an option for me - I have enough debt already.

So why did I have a child, I hear you cry? Well tbh I didn't know how hard leaving dd would be, it really affects me badly. And what should I have done when I found I was pg???? Had a termination even though I didn't want one (btw please don't misjudge me on abortion, I believe in every woman's right to choose, however my choice wouldn't be termination for any reason).

Being in my situation has made me ill to the point that I am being treated for depression and have been for almost a year now.

So what should I do???? Give up work and lose the house? We don't live a lavish lifestyle, we live in a small house and although we have two cars we do need them as we live in a rural location and work 40 miles apart. We holiday with relatives. We rarely go out.

I feel guilty every time I leave dd at nursery. It's a good place staffed by great people who look after her really well, but that doesn't stop me feeling like she shouldn't be there as much as she is. I am simply doing the best I can.

Please please please can those of you who judge people in my situation think about what you would do if you were me, and stop being so damn sanctimonious.

Wow. What a thread! I am one of these strange bread-winning mothers. Dh is a lovely arty-type with interesting job but irregular earnings. But a fab husband/father. DD was in nursery 10 hours for 4-5 days until she went to school and now has aupair for after school. She seems very happy. As soemone who is quite prone to depression I think I'm better off keeping very busy (mentally as well as physically) so working suits me. My industry doesn't do much 'part-time' sadly, but I'm alwsy on the look-out! But I look on the bright side, happy child etc. And she understands why I work as we discuss it. Glad there have been some positive posts about fulltime working. Have many friends who are SAHMs and we've never felt critical of each other. They just have bread-winning dp's.

Well I suppose I could trade my dh for a breadwinning one but I kinda like the one I've got

Apologies for the rant, feel better for getting it all off my chest.

I like mine too Tangerine! Have stopped beating myself up about the way we live (well, usually). dd1 seems ok and there's another dd on the way now.

tangerinecath - don't let all this get to you. It's a thoroughly unoriginal piece of writing designed to get women stacking up and judging each other.

Boring boring boring

My DS was very excited when I said he could go to after-school club twice a week when I was working because his friends were there. I am now having to drop him down to one night a week because I cannot afford the second day - My hours have changed and he is really upset. My DD (18 months) does not look back at me when she goes into nursery three days a week because she cannot wait to get in there and waits by the door to go from about 8 am.

I am such a cruel mother!

Well that was fun reading. I have a full time job, and I am a mother (I have to say I'm not keen on the "WOTH" thing - do dads ever use such phrases?). We have used a variety of childcare options, and I really don't understand why it should be considered more important to be with your child when they are little and don't really notice who is caring for them, so long as they are being cared for, as compared to when they are at school age, and care very much. Anyway. In real life, I have never had any of these conversations. This despite the fact I work with many women (and some men too) who have chosen a variety of different ways to balance home and family. They all seem quite hard to be honest, but then the ideal of not having to work but having pots of cash and the chose to do whatever you like isn't really open to many of us is it?

There are quite a few posts on here questioning how mothers who work full time can have a full relationship with their children.

Did your fathers work full time when you were a child - do you not have a relationship and love them?

I managed to have a highly successful, fully bonded relationship with my father, who worked long hours and had many interests outside the home. Why would children not manage that with their WOTH mothers too?

I think it's a load of nonsense spouted to 'prove' and justify the decision to SAH. Why do you bother, who are you desperate to convince?

Why not just accept that you have a choice, which you exercised in a way which made most sense to you, and leave it at that! The constant churning over choices made is unnecessary and energy sapping IMHO!

The thing that most pissed me off about my own mother and why being a SAHM would be hard for me, is the stench of martyrdom that pervaded our lives. What I gave up to make sure you had the best. What I would have been if I hadn't had you.

There is more than a whiff of it on this thread too!

I would just like to say that I would appreciate a much me-time as I can get, and I don't care what you bloody call it.
As lond as I don't have to spend it at a BLOODY SPA!

Tangerinecath - your post is EXACTLY the reason that I can't be doing with articles like IKs.
I admire you. I admire you for doing everything you are doing to give your dd not only a great start in life, but a great life. Most of us can think of many ways in which we'd like to make some adjustments in one way or another, but as you say, you are doing the best you can. You have made sure she is being well looked after, while you do your job and fulfil the other part of your family responsibilitoes.

Judging by the many many posts from MN-ers whose mothers worked f/t when they were little, she will be proud of you and appreciate what you are doing. Well done. Please try not to take personally the views of a woman like india Knight who makes living by criticising and being sanctimonious about people who can't ive like she does.

soapbox is having two parents in full time work equivalent to having one at home with you consistently. i'm not slagging woh mothers at all (see my posts below for how i feel about the lack of emphasis on fathers).

i think most people would agree that their relationships with fathers that were absent most of the time from the home and indeed from most parenting (unlike lots of woh mothers) as was the case in the majority of cases in the past is very different to the one that they had with their mothers especially when they were children as opposed the one that has developed in adulthood.

we're talking about the importance of a consistent loving one on one carer....that person can be a childminder or granny/brother if they are loving. but institutionalised care on a 8 hour plus basis cannot provide that however many keyworkers are assigned. and i'm not slagging parents who have to use this kind of care, i'm slagging a govt that is making this the whole emphasis of it's policy in this area....

sorry if that's as clear as mud but am knackered and i know what i mean....

Stinkweasel, has anyone bashed sahms on this thread? i thought only IK had done that in another article?

I thought sahms had ony been bashed if they were criticising wohms?

But your principle is right, and no-one should allow dilitttante columnists to cause division and castigation.

ah blu now I have been out all evening (me time ) and the first post and the first thing I read is "no-one should allow dilittante columnists to cause division and castigation. "
my god how right you are
splendidly well put

oh tangerinecath, stop beating yourself up. for what its worth I have just put my ds2 into nursery at 18 months and he is thriving. he was totally ready for it. my ds1 went in at 11 months from necessity. you are doing the best you can and there is no perfect way to do it. god you can't win, if you stay at home and keep them with you they lose out from the socialising and skills nursery teaches them and if you send them then you are a heartless bitch. don't beat yourself up, do your best, love your kid and bugger what anyone else thinks.