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Soham Murder trial

432 replies

codswallop · 05/11/2003 12:04

I am sure this must be indescribably Painful for the parents , But I was thinking in bed - what if I had been selected for that Jury service....

I am soooooo emotional and i reckon that this would seriously affect me for the rest of my life (not saying it wouldnt for others natch).

I know you cant get out of Jury Service But God - how would you cope?

OP posts:
GreenSanta · 17/12/2003 13:17

Message withdrawn

Rae1973 · 17/12/2003 13:18

How ANYONE could find this man (not a man really but an animal) innocent is totally beyond me, he has told so many lies now they have bells on them.

This is someone that spoke to one of the girls fathers and said he hoped that his daughter was found safe and well knowing that he had murdered them.

As for MC sentence, not good enough, she should have got longer, she will be out in 12 months, and with how stupid the law is today don't believe that IH will serve his first sentence.

She must have known about him, although, he did manage to keep it from his employers. No matter what my dh, lover or friend did, I WOULD NOT and COULD NOT stand by them taking two innocent lives.

GeorginaA · 17/12/2003 13:19

Am I right in thinking he hadn't been going out with MC for that long? In which case, I think it eminently plausible that she wasn't aware of the previous accusations (made in the 90s weren't they?)

Interesting, even if he had been vetted with his proper name for the job - would accusations (i.e. NOT convictions) shown up on his record anyway? I wouldn't have thought they'd be allowed to pass that information on as he hadn't been convicted of them.

Rae1973 · 17/12/2003 13:20

If she had fallen into the bath and banged her head hard enough to knock her out, surely there would have been bad bruising to the skull and water in the lungs post-mortem.

SnowyZebra · 17/12/2003 13:21

I'm not sure about the drowning, either, whether I would have decided it was manslaughter or murder. A small % of drowning victims die with no water in their lungs; the water enters the top of the larynx, the brain panics and shut downs the entire breathing mechanism; victim then suffocates. If a person is unconscious (like if she was knocked out from falling against the bathroom tiles or tub), it can actually be very hard to revive them, because their brains have decided not to breathe and they can't consciously decide to breathe again. But doesn't sound like IH even pretended to try to revive her... combine that with the whole ludicrosity of IH's story, I expect I would have decided on guilty on that one, too.

Rae1973 · 17/12/2003 13:21

GeorginaA, I agree, on most forms today they ask where you have lived for the past 2 years and then for another 4 years prior to that, AND they ask for any previous name changes within the last 6 years.

Makes you wonder who is has got away with things against women and children etc and are working in or near our schools

GladTidings · 17/12/2003 13:23

Rae1973 - eh..... my point was, she believed he HADN'T killed them. I wouldn't stand by my DH if I knew he'd done that either. But she says she believed they left the house alive, but thought he would get framed for it!!

There was actually a small fracture in the skull of Holly...... As for water on the lungs?? I think the bodies were too badly burned and decomposed to tell that.

TheGrinch · 17/12/2003 13:24

Georgina, agree on both points - although apparently each of the accusations was separate, Humberside police had not tied them all together, if so then maybe they could have advised against employing him in a school. I don't know what the position would be legally if they did.

GreenSanta · 17/12/2003 13:26

Message withdrawn

katierocket · 17/12/2003 13:29

sorry to go off tack here but has anyone seen '12 Angry Men'? fantastic film and really makes you think about the reality of being on a jury

GeorginaA · 17/12/2003 13:30

It's a tough one re: the previous accusations isn't it? I mean, I wouldn't want just accusations passed on for people who have been the victim of a malicious accusation with no basis in truth - lives get screwed up enough as it is by those sorts of lies. On the other hand, I'd want to make sure that children weren't put at risk because victims were too scared of speaking out in a court room.

I suppose the answer is to try and take a good look at the legal system and see if there are ways that victims of sexual crimes can be made to feel safer giving testimony.

FairyMum · 17/12/2003 13:33

I just heard on the radio that the reason they might have taken so long to reach the verdict was because of the uncertainty regarding MC involvement. He is pure evil and should die in prison. I can't believe he was even allowed to put forward his rubbish defense.....

TheGrinch · 17/12/2003 13:34

katierocket, I was thinking along those lines earlier - what if when the jury first goes out they are split 6-6? One lot has to try to persuade the other lot and the more persuasive lot prevails, presumably? But that's not how it's supposed to work, is it?

GladTidings · 17/12/2003 13:36

Wouldn't have been a very fair trial if he hadn't been allowed to!
Innocent until proven guilty... and all that.

katierocket · 17/12/2003 13:39

that is why that film is so brilliant. It was made in the fifties and it is all about how we all have our prejudices that are impossible to leave behind in these situations. In the film it starts off with 11 jurors finding a man guilty immediately and 1 juror making them review all evidence etc. (I'm not suggesting Soham trial was anything like this you understand) but it really is a fantastic, thought provoking film.

GreenSanta · 17/12/2003 13:46

Message withdrawn

Hulababy · 17/12/2003 13:54

Only just seen this news. Seems that justice has been served and IH will go to prison, hopefully for a very long time.

Still unsure on MC. Suspect she is just very niave, not that bright and that she was manipulated by IH to such an extent that she didn't believe he'd done it. Still not sure how she didn't suspect though.

Hulababy · 17/12/2003 14:05

Some people here have mentioned the drowning and it not being plausable. This is a quote from the BBC site:

"But a pathologist said the bathroom was too small for Holly to have fallen into the bath unless someone had lifted her legs over the side."

lazyeye · 17/12/2003 14:07

I know we only have the media version of the trial events, but I just cannot believe a word of his bath/screaming pleas. I don't see how a 10 yr old girl can die in a bath without being restrained in some way. God even my 3yr old slips in the bath and if you are there and help him (which is the point I suppose) he is fine.

I think it must be quite insulting for the families of those girls.

I'm not usually a Daily Express 'throw away the key' type but I just think of those 2 girls who should be getting ready for Christmas and he continues to lie......not even giving the families the dignity of the truth. I don't know about MC...maybe she was deluded, but she still lied and I think I would have had some suspicions...........

Its a true tragedy. I hope they can get over it now. I don't think the constant dragging up by the press and the specials on the BBC tonight can help Should leave them to get on with it now

santafio2 · 17/12/2003 14:08

they ought to lock him up and throw any the key, sicko

as for maxine carr, i think we all know women (and men!) as dim and niave as her. Whether she did actually know the truth or not, we dont know.

donnie · 17/12/2003 14:30

GUILTY.And the bastard had already a string of sex allegations against him - 10. I believe. But no prosecutions apart from one because of 'lack of evidence'. How could this man be allowed to work in a school? it's all come out into the public domain now, his past. And the fact that Maxine Carr provided him with an alibi once before.In my mind I am now sure that he raoed at least one of the 2 girls and murdered them to cover it up.

donnie · 17/12/2003 14:31

that should have said 'raped'.

aloha · 17/12/2003 14:32

Posted this on the other thread. Utterly dumbfounded that anyone should STILL think him innocent, for God's sake.

I hardly think eight separate serious allegations of child sex abuse reported to the police and social services and four separate allegations of rape by different women are 'little suspicions'! Of course these should have been recorded. It was shocking that they were not. A gross error that may have cost those poor girls their lives. I think the person who voted not guilty will be feeling pretty sick and stupid now.
And it just makes me feel even more sick about our justice system's hideous record on not successfully prosecuting rapists. Nearly all of the bastards get away with it - over and over and over again. If four women went to the police to report a rape and nothing happened, can you imagine how many he actually did rape? How many children he hurt? It explains everything, though that will probably cause even more pain to those parents who will now be in such agony. I feel sick

berries · 17/12/2003 14:46

May be wrong, but sure bbc news says MC gave alibi for previous allegation?

berries · 17/12/2003 14:48

yes - news.bbc.co.uk says MC gave alibi in July 1999. I definately don;t think she was completely taken in now. Once maybe, but twice??

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