People feeling under pressure to wear a poppy.

[schroeder]

Yesterday on the bbc news a very interesting conversation about the increasing pressure people feel to wear a poppy seemed about to start, but was cut short. It was something to do with football shirts I think.

I feel this is a conversation that should be had. I work with the public and feel uncomfortable every year when it is expected of me to wear one.

It's not the wearing so much that bothers me, but that in doing so I am supporting a charity I would not support otherwise.
Surely we should not all feel forced to give to this charity whether we like it or not?
I do not think even the British legion woud want poppies to be compulsary?

"That is spectacularly naive" why? because its true!
I know its never going to happen, people will always fight and sadly people will give their lifes for other peoples fight. When did it become right to kill people because they have a different opinion, religion, or want food/resouces ect. The people that die in these wars arent the government or leaders who start them, its the mums and dads, uncles and aunts of the everyone people.

As for the point of poppys is to help people, do they help the people that our service people hurt? the normal people caught in the cross fires? Nope

..over here .. obviously ( and I'm a pedant ).

I agree with last couple of posts - that is another aspect of it really. I mean when we see someone 'sans poppy' how do we know whether they have put a pound in the box but chosen not to wear a poppy or just not contributed?

No, it's not to show how kind you are, unless kindness is giving £1???

The poppy is a symbol of respect and rememberance, the charitable part was always less important to me. Although now I find it hard to separate the two.

OMG how dense can MN people really be???

You don't wear a poppy to make the point that you've put 10p/10pounds in the pot, you wear it to remind people about those who have died/been left behind during tragic circumstances.

Do you wear a pink ribbon to be smug about giving a coin for breast cancer or in memory of someone you've lost and/or to show support for a cause you believe in?

No-one wears a poppy to say "I put 2 whole quid in the can at Waterloo station and I dont' care who knows it", and yes, there will be pointless humans who turn it into a bigoted symbol of fascism (how ironic!), but to say it's like Phoebe's beliefs on Friends "there's no such thing as a good deed" is as disingenous as anything I've heard on here.

I think there are plenty of people who find a reason to feel morally superior, and i don't care if they do it by ostentiously wearing a poppy, or ostentiously NOT wearing one. They do not represent me, and they are not going to stop me thinking the poppies represent something bigger.

If it takes pop culture to get a message through these days then may I refer you all to the final episode of Black Adder Goes Forth. THAT might get the horror across to you, and explain that the poppies that came up afterwards were seen as a sign of hope.

I'd quite like to wear a white poppy, or both a red and white together, as I feel that would better represent my feelings about war. I think war is very sad, and that many people suffer in them. I also feel if only we could all put our resources into other positive things instead of fighting one another there is so much we could do to help one another for example providing everyone with clean water, enough food to eat, basic medical care, and some education for all.

But usually I don't wear any poppy, as I feel people wouldn't understand or respect my choice (eg if I were to wear one of each )
Although perhaps I might try it for a couple of days around the 11th and see how it goes ?

Surely the point of the poppy is twofold at least. It helps to provide money for those injured in war and their dependent families. It also serves as a symbol of Remembrance of sacrifice, by both volunteers and conscripts. I once heard an old soldier give an address on Remembrance Sunday say that it reminds us not only of that sacrifice but that for generations people have had to choose between the negation of peace which is oppression and tyranny and the negation of peace which is war. I happen to be glad that my ancestors chose the latter and wear - and sell - poppies to mark that. I would be sad if others felt pressurised into wearing a poppy against deeply held beliefs - even if I think they are misguided or ill-informed. However I find it equally sad that those who have no strong objection either forget or refuse to think about why they enjoy the freedoms so often taken for granted or are simply too mean to buy a poppy. Any poppy seller will tell you of people hurrying past with both bags of expensive shopping and their eyes averted from the collecting tin. It is often those who seem least able to give who are the most generous.

Those who have referred in kindly terms to the Peace Pledge Union may care to ask themselves whether it was those who supported that organisation and the way it thought who also supported appeasement of Hitler.

I have to say as well that if I had been born a woman in Afghanistan it is a good question whether I would have preferred the current situation to living under the Taliban but I am not certain that the answer is quite so clear cut as some people seem to assume.

So you would rather not support poorly paid service people who have had their arms blown off or sight taken because other people injured are not supported? riiiiight. And you just said the people that die aren't the governments so who do you think should support the soldiers and their families. The women (mainly) left behind with small families living in sub standard accommodation whose husband joined up 15 years ago because he lived in a deprived part of Britain and couldn't get a job. Who should support that family when he comes home injured?

I defy any of you "non-believers" to go to the Menin Gate one night at 7:50pm - if you can get anywhere near the front - and watch and listen to the Last Post and remain unmoved. Or are you all way too cool for that?

FYI - the Last Post has been performed at the Menin Gate every.single.night since 1919 (except a brief hiatus during WWII) and is attended by people from around the globe. On it are the names of 100,000 men who simply "disappeared in to the mud".

Perhaps you could take a stroll around the battlegrounds of Flanders - where even now in 2011 the remains of your grandfathers and great-grandfathers are pulled from the earth when the fields are ploughed.

There are other ways to remember those who died than by wearing a poppy.

Some of us may feel that wearing a poppy not only remembers those that have died in past conflicts, but may encourage, in however small a way, other conflicts to continue.

I would imagine those of us who don't feel comfortable with poppies probably have done those things, AP. It's possible we're actually uncomfortable because we think more about these issues, not less.

I wear a poppy to show sympathy for those who have lost their lives or been injured as a result of war. Not to support politicians' decisions to start these wars.

I've never judged anyone for not wearing a poppy. For starters most people have several coats and those pins aren't exactly great at holding the poppy on anyway. And its a personal choice, depending on family and local connections to the forces as well as your feelings about war.

There are two separate issues which only a couple of posters seems to be grasping. The wearing of the poppy is an act of remembrance and not, as some people think, a big arrow pointing to the fact that you've given to charity. TBH, if that's what you think the wearing of the poppy means, then maybe it's better that you don't wear one, you've clearly completely missed the point.

The donation to charity is entirely separate.

Talking about pressure in schools, this came from ds's last weeks school newsletter:
'The Royal British Legion Poppy Appeal 2011.
We are supporting the Royal British Legion Poppy Appeal in their 90th Anniversary Year and it would be great if we could try and gain the XXXXXXXX Schools? Poppy Trophy for our record breaking, fund raising efforts. We would really appreciate it if you could kindly send your donations for your poppies into school next week.'

I personally didn't like the tone of this. I know they are collecting for the BL but it makes you feel as if you're not supporting the SCHOOL if you don't contribute. That competitiveness gives it a completely wrong emphasis to me. (Although some of the charities we are asked to contribute to at school have only tenuous links to children, and are clearly teacher's pet charities, so WTH why not poppies?)

I work in a different school but no one has asked me to wear one. Plenty of staff in my school are not wearing them but I do like to wear one every year. I have done so since I was a child for a number of reasons that include the sheepish social pressure of 'it's expected' this week.

But let's be clear - I don't care what you all think of me for wearing a poppy this week, and honestly I don't care if you wear one or not.

I think not wearing a poppy is an act of self indulgence. When my grandfather was alive I know that it made him feel good when people wore poppies, it made him feel those nights patrolling in Burma worrying that he'd have to kill someone or be killed we worth a moment of though to someone else.

He never talked much about his national service, let's remember many service people were only so because they had to be, but he did say on the ship setting off to war he talked to the other men in his cabin, they took turns to say whether or not they would come home alive. Some of them knew they wouldn't, and my grandfather said, most of them were right.

Does it really hurt to wear a poppy when the upside is making a parent of a lost soldier feel proud? A son/daughter feel proud? Helping a young family make it through the toughest time? Is that worth the 'well I don't agree with war sentiment?'

(not sure what's happened to my typing skill)

Gets priest to exorcise Cod.

@stigmata: "Do you wear a pink ribbon to be smug about giving a coin for breast cancer or in memory of someone you've lost and/or to show support for a cause you believe in?"

I don't wear a pink ribbon for precisely that reason.

What gwenoline said. I don't wear any charity trinkets. I don't like them and don't see the point. I give to charity (in fact, this morning have given all the money I had in my purse to 3 different poppy sellers) some posters are confusing the issue of supporting and being respectful and being seen to support and be respectful.

Lissie, part of the poppy appeal is to show remembrance.

@TwoIfBySea: "Guess what, no one cares if you wear a poppy."

But apparently you do. And so do PosiesofPoison, Stigmata and Rhinestone, to judge from the increasingly hysterical nature of your posts.

And some posters of course are showing very little respect for others views.
Why tell people to "shut the heck up" on a discussion board ?
If you're not up for an exchange of views then it's you who should "just walk on by"
As I said before it's those sort of views that make me reluctant to wear my white poppy perhaps alongside a red one.
After all they grow side by side in the fields of Flanders.

Juggling - if you would like to rephrase that "I feel that wearing a poppy not only remembers those that have died in past conflicts, but encourages, in however small a way, other conflicts to continue" then you would be standing by your opinions. if you are not speaking for yourself, then I need some kind of citation for such a phenomenally crass statement. Sounds like a quack selling herbs "you may experience a feeling of wellbeing...". It either is what alot of people think, or it isn't.

If you are speaking for yourself, then I would not waste my time trying to persuade you otherwise.

LRD "I would imagine those of us who don't feel comfortable with poppies probably have done those things, AP. It's possible we're actually uncomfortable because we think more about these issues, not less".

and that would be the moral superiority .....

Those who we remember are not to blame for how their memory is twisted, used or otherwise taken out of context for the ends of others. When I wore a poppy as a 10 year old, I wore it for the same reason I wear it now, 30 years later. The social climate may have changed, my reasons for it have not. I will not jump onto the most recent bandwagon of opinion (in either direction), saying that they must be compulsory, or that it's distasteful to wear them when there are so many who died in the crossfire.

..and to paraphrase a far greater person, just because you're opting out of supporting those who died in those wars, doesn't mean you are opting in to support those who were on the other side/"collateral damage". Unless you actually spend concrete time and money and effort finding a good use for your pound, your minute's silence, your campaigning, then it is all just rhetoric.

Hello hackmum - 1st - not sure what you meant, that wearing a ribbon would be smug thing to do? Or you don't have anyone to remember? I have never worn one, so don't have a particularl axe on that one, just curious, as I can't believe people do it to be smug...do they?

2nd - were you saying that Twoifbysea was being hysterical, or I, among others, was being hysterical. Just wanted to know, before belligerently defending myself

I don't walk past and think about people wearing a poppy or not, who does? Except people directly affected by loss or injury in war. It's the self important justification about why people choose not to wear one.