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iloveberries · 03/11/2011 14:25
Anyone else a bit cynical about this and think that P&G have basically 'bought' the award. My best friend and husband used to work there (how i met him) and I can guarantee they are anything BUT family friendly to work for!!!
Vickimumsnet · 04/11/2011 11:13
HTML is just plain scary.
Vickimumsnet · 04/11/2011 11:14
No we didn't WhollyGhost and I think next year we absolutely will. Or a % of staff numbers.
Vickimumsnet · 04/11/2011 11:17
No not linked to MNHQ other than through these awards. We have done previous projects with them because sometimes our work needs Mumsnet input and sometimes they do stuff with us but we're independent.
We're more policy advisors, but the person who did the analysis of the data is a proper researcher. And I've worked on family policy since mother was a duck. Sorry, showing my northern roots there.
JustineMumsnet · 04/11/2011 11:39
@WallowedInFlies
MTG' posting on this thread is as dubious as it gets though - don't care how long she's been posting for. has occurred to me that maybe a blue chip company would like to pay me to support them on MN??? will be watching my inbox.
I'm sorry but I'm going to have to swear again because quite frankly, this is just bollocks - maybe, just maybe, MTG has personal experience of P&G because someone she knows works for them? Maybe she used to work for them but she doesn't want to tell you that? All I know is that any company paying stooges to post on Mumsnet would be taking a huge risk and from what I know about big multinationals like P&G they just don't take risks like that.
I would eat my hat, my gloves, my scarf and my shoes if MTG turned out to be paid to contribute what she has to this thread.
JustineMumsnet · 04/11/2011 11:41
@josephinebonaparte
Mumsnet gets a fee to conduct the audits/ surveys/ pay for incentives to panel and the gongs etc.
Our incentive is to make UK companies more family friendly and celebrate those who are doing creative things.
Vickimumsnet · 04/11/2011 11:41
Hi PatriciaHolm realised I haven't answered some of your questions and wanted to...yes the companies were self selecting and yes they all got an award of some sort. The thinking behind that was that we wanted companies to get on board and let us in - because we thought that was the best way to find out enough about what they were doing and get them to share what they're doing so that we could encourage, nag and badger them to do more. Some companies were really worried about getting on board because they knew they had work to do - and we said do it, be brave because if people start talking about this and being scrutinised it will get harder for the bad managers and the bad employers to continue to behave that way. We had plenty of very honest feedback from staff which gave me confidence that it wasn't all window dressing. But we're not daft - companies want to present their best face. We just did our best to look at enough data to get decent feel for them.
WhollyGhost what do you do? I bet you're not cheap - just outstanding value :o
Vickimumsnet · 04/11/2011 11:49
Mouseface dare I say that sounds v cynical:o I'm just curious to see if there are more people out there like me who think reading through drafty policy documents is a fun way to spend an evening :)
PS the company pays the fee.
Vickimumsnet · 04/11/2011 11:51
Sorry I have to stop for half an hour because I have to do something else that I promised to deliver an hour ago and then got into our discussion and am enjoying myself. I will be back in half an hour to answer any more questions.
Vickimumsnet · 04/11/2011 11:52
no not a statistician and in all honesty it would be hard to statistically analyse a lot of the data because so much of it was qualitative.
JustineMumsnet · 04/11/2011 13:07
All the companies that enter pay a fee for auditing, mumsnetter testing use of logo. Smaller companies - with less than 500 employees pay half as much as big ones.
Vickimumsnet · 04/11/2011 13:37
Oh definitely TFI Friday.
ALways nice to know the weekend is So close. Just wanted to say take your point on statistician EverybodysScaryEyed :)
Vickimumsnet · 04/11/2011 14:57
Hi, yep, everyone got an award - the thinking was agreeing to work with us to try to get better was worth something and letting us in to talk to their staff and dig about in all their policies was a pretty big darn ask. The folks that got bronze or silver were all told where they were weak and what they could do to improve and that's a lot of what they were paying for. Being audited, getting the results and getting recommendations. I guess we could have done it without awards but we thought the public element - the naming in awards - was important because hopefully that will up the public debate and show parents that they can and should expect family friendly work experiences. And it's definitely generated some debate :)
Vickimumsnet · 04/11/2011 16:55
Hi, I am now going to have to smell a bottle of Bold - can't say I ever have but I'm going to now.
I've been thinking long and hard about all the discussion points today because I can totally see the issues. For what it's worth, as a money making activity these awards barely covered their costs. It wasn't about making money. It wasn't about selling a badge - there are squillions of awards that are about that and nothing more and this wasn't set up to be that. Yes companies paid but they also agreed to let us take a close look at how they treated families internally and externally and it was a massive amount of work. We can improve next year because we are learning a lot as we go and I think we're the first people to try to do something like this and we can improve but to be honest I think we gave it a pretty good go and we achieved some things. For example, we stimulated one member to create a whole new working contract for families which I'm pretty proud of.
How bad would a company have to be to not get an award? Well one company was interested and we couldn't have them because they weren't even on the starting blocks when it came to FF so we did say no to people.
Vickimumsnet · 04/11/2011 17:03
On the P&G front it wasn't just their policy on peer to peer marketing that bagged them an award. It was that they:
Have a policy on meetings only happening during core hours so part timers aren't discriminated against Have gender training and specific training to encourage understanding of flexible working Have women in senior management roles who are supported to work flexibly and model family friendly behaviour Offer enhanced benefits across all statutory areas (maternity, paternity, adoption) have rooms available for breastfeeding Have a 'my family' package that helps staff to find childcare including emergency childcare have a parent and carers network actively promote their benefits and flexible working packages to their staff
PS those were not in any order. I was simply reading their report whilst typing.
Vickimumsnet · 04/11/2011 17:04
Hi, yes it was the O2 contract and I think it is properly innovative and the first fresh idea in this area for ages.
Vickimumsnet · 04/11/2011 17:21
I'm going to try it.....is it the liquid stuff? Wonder if I'd get thrown out of Sainsbury if I just popped in for a quick sniff
How do you trust the policies is kind of how I got into this Mumsnet relationship - I think you put them to the test. You talk to staff, you talk to customers you get the companies to tell you what the policies are so that we have a chance to challenge them if they're not real. We found across the companies that there were some really good policies but what we want to do is to make sure they're reaching everyone. That's why I think the O2 contract thing is such a good idea because it will reach people who are doing retail jobs where normally flexibility is really hard. It's never going to be 100% but we can try. Even if we just manage to get companies to come out and talk about this stuff it's a start. I think
Vickimumsnet · 04/11/2011 17:22
Oh bugger I realised I just named a high street supermarket chain and now you'll think I'm promoting them. I'm not. They're not in the programme. They're just around the corner and the closest place I could pop into to get some smelling done.
Vickimumsnet · 04/11/2011 17:48
LOL :)
JustineMumsnet · 04/11/2011 18:02
They, like everyone else paid to enter, because we can't do audits with outside companies, give mumsnetters incentive vouchers without a cost. This is a pretty standard way of doing things.
Can you buy a gold as opposed to a bronze? No Did they try to? No Are they sending stooges onto this thread to talk their company up? No
Vickimumsnet · 04/11/2011 21:14
This really is a super interesting debate. I hope everyone carries on being engaged in the Family Friendly programme shouting at us to get it better and highlighting where companies are liar liar pants on fires because there hasn't been much serious debate about these issues for a long time. I've been involved in FF policy for 10 years and I thought we'd never move on from baby changing facilities and toilets (important though those are!)
It's really difficult to describe adequately how the whole thing worked on a thread - I wish I could sit and go through all the data and findings with you all. The reality was that when we tried to get companies interested in this lots of them wouldn't get involved. We worked really hard for 8 months trying to persuade companies to join and we managed to get 3. Eventually, three of us were out there talking to companies and trying to get them to believe that this was important and that if they were prepared to let us audit them and see what their family friendly credentials were it would be worthwhile. Yes commercially but if we can't persuade corporates that being good to families makes good business sense we're never going to win. I truly think that a over time, people will look to see whether a company is family friendly just like people look to see what green credentials a company has. Infact, I'm cross that it isn't available already. I want a family friendly kitemark! BUT....we had to start somewhere, with something we could do, we could get companies involved in and then we could start to create change from the inside and the outside. God I sound pompous don't I? Sorry. I just mean that it might not have been perfect but there was rigour. They are now being scrutinised. We'll do more next year because the award will have more value - this year none of the companies knew whether anyone would give a sod. Will stop going on now. Not usually on the boards and now I can't stop :)
Vickimumsnet · 04/11/2011 21:25
it is subjective - except that there are things you can quantify like the benefits - do they enhance any statutory benefits. And then the one that lots lost points for which was how hard do they work to communicate what's available to parents. No point having a flexible working policy if only the HR department know about it - and you can check those reasonably easily because we asked to see evidence. How and where they promote the policies. And then we cross referenced with what the staff said. So yes, it is subjective but then so much of social policy is. We've tried to share a bit more of the process here www.mumsnet.com/family-friendly/how-we-decided-who-won-an-award
Vickimumsnet · 04/11/2011 21:28
sorry no I mislead you there - we had 3 companies for 8 months. We worked really, really hard with an amazing new person at MNHQ and managed to get 16 members in the end. 2 gold, 3 bronze and 11 silver. But my word it was not an easy thing to encourage companies to do. Really, not.
Vickimumsnet · 04/11/2011 21:34
Sorry I don't think my last post went up. Just said that I'm sorry I wasn't clear. We had 3 companies for 8 months. It was like pushing a snowball up a hot hill. A new person came on the team at MNHQ and between us we managed to persuade another 13 companies to join in the last few months. It was really hard to encourage companies in - one sector is notable by its absence if you look through the list and it wasn't cos we didn't ask! I've tried to explain the whole thing a bit better here www.mumsnet.com/family-friendly/how-we-decided-who-won-an-award
Vickimumsnet · 04/11/2011 21:35
Oops it did go up. So now I'm repeating myself like a mad old bat. Oh Dear. Maybe I should retire gracefully but I will come back tomorrow if anyone has any more questions.
Vickimumsnet · 04/11/2011 21:45
that is hard - it's why we asked for evidence as well, but the problem with policy evidence is that's its relatively easy to write a good policy. I think the accurate picture thing will come over time. What we have now is baseline data. We have information which allows us to say - this company does that, and this company does this. Why don't you both get up to the same standard and offer parents consistency. Next year, we're going to do a year 2 audit on the companies and where we had concerns this year we'll expect them to demonstrate what they've done. Asking for exit interview data would be great actually. Interestingly one member has 98% of its staff that go on maternity leave come back to work afterwards. That's pretty good. But they only got a silver because they didn't show us enough to be able to give them anything higher - even though anecdotally and on the basis of that 98% they seem to be pretty good.
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