Amanda Knox

[LadyBeagleEyes]

Her appeal is being heard at the moment, and there is a good chance she'll be freed.
So who did kill Meredith?
If she and her ex boyfriend are deemed innocent, I hope the Italian police will continue to look into the case and get some justice for her.
I don't understand why they say the DNA is flawed, or have Knox's parents just managed to hire some very smart lawyers?
It's such a sad case.

[redandgreen]

There really isn't evidence against Knox or Sollecito and so it's not a case of poor evidence gathering, other than the obvious bra clasp part. The evidence gathering seems otherwise comprehensive and cut and dried against Guede. Absolutely tons of conclusive evidence all over the crime scene barely contested by his lawyers. If I were one of Kercher's relatives I would be kicking and screaming to get him a longer sentence. In fact it's scary that he will be out so quickly and that all this AK / RS stuff is taking the heat off the real issue - that Guede should be locked away for life.

[redandgreen]

Kelly
Totally agree with that part. I actually wrote something to that effect and deleted it before I posted earlier. The baby shouldn't be shrown out with the bathwater and police intuition is an important tool. Just that when evidence clearly points to a scenario other than the initial assessment you have to move on and admit the mistake.

[kelly2000]

redandgreen,
were there not bloody footprints of Knox?
I think the problem is that the media have been very one sided in the reporting. For instance going into great detail about what the independant exprts said against the DNA evidence, but not reporting on the reponse to this. I think it is good that in italy, judges also make the decision on guilt, not just juries as if the italian media was like the british there would be no chance of a fair trial either way.

[LapsedPacifist]

There appears to be no evidence to back up the preocution team's assertion that Meredith was murdered during a kinky sex game instigated by S and K that went wrong. Is there any evidence that either of them had ever participated in such games or even expressed any curiosity about S&M stuff - wouldn't ex-partners would have come forward if this were the case? And neither had any history of violent behaviour or abnormal psychology or mental health issues that might pre-dispose them towards psychotic behaviour. And surely killing someone either during or for refusing to participate in an S&M scenario is psychotic? Surely SOME evidence, from schools or doctors or old friends would have come to light?

It just doesn't make any sense. None of it really adds up. I believe Guede was solely responsible. S and K were just extremely naive about the Italian legal system (as you would expect from privileged middle-class kids) and the fact that they might be considered suspects, and K panicked and was pressurised into accusing her boss.

[redandgreen]

I have gone back in to the mega doc - just for you Kelly, this is about the one footprint that was initially attributed to Knox:

The Court, on this point, takes notice of the opposing conclusions without expressing a specific opinion. It cannot in fact be excluded that Guede alone tread on the cushion lying on the floor, to the exclusion of Knox (the smaller dimensions of the right foot can be explained by the characteristics of the underlying surface, the pillow, having a non-rigid structure and where the material of the pillow-slip may have been not perfectly straightened out, but, on the contrary, soft and as such determining the curvature), to whom [=Knox], actually, one [must] attribute moving herself about the murder scene essentially in bare feet, as shown in the part of the report that examines the genetic investigations that were done on certain biological traces and the positive Luminol prints.

[redandgreen]

Btw there was certainly none of Knox's dna in MK's room that would almost certainly been found if she had been there with bare feet.

[redandgreen]

By which I mean the bare footprints referred to were found in the bathroom, corridor and Ak's room - corresponding to her having a shower, stepping on the bloody bathmat and then treading it through the flat.

I'm not denying that this is very dozy and odd behaviour btw. But not evidence she was in MK's room.

[redandgreen]

I urge anyone curious about the evidence to look through the mega doc - thanks to fastweb for posting. There are definitely still inconsistencies that will forever remain unexplained, AK and RS's very murky descriptions of what they were doing on the night and the break-in in particular, but the description of the evidence at the actual crime scene is obviously as clear as you could find anywhere and, to me, extremely conclusive.

[Portofino]

There was no blood trace detected in the footprints attributed to Knox in the hall etc. Luminol also glows on substances other than blood eg bleach, cleaning products etc. The footprints were tested and were negative for blood. The most likely explanation is that she walked down the corridor with wet feet after a shower and "rehydrated" the clean floor. Knox's dna (note not blood traces) was found in various places in the bathroom - but then she used that room every day so that is to be expected.

[RedRubyBlue]

That is one of the main baffling points.

Where were they that night? It has never been fully explained.

[redandgreen]

Also, the personal information about Meredith makes her sound absolutely lovely and the crime all the more horrific for that. The whole circus dragging on for this trial and most likely yet another must be heart-wrenching for the family and I hope they find peace.

[Portofino]

Yes - I agree that there are inconsistencies - but then most of us don't organise our lives in a nice neat way always with detailed timings and alibis that we could trot out if suddenly accused with murder. I guess that is even more true for 2 pot-smoking, young students. It's always the same with these things, we project what WE would do, how WE would behave.

There is NO evidence to tie Knox and Sollecito to the crime scene, no matter how oddly they may or may not have behaved. And as someone on the other thread said, the profile is all wrong. A young couple who have been going out a few days are so highly unlikely to have carried out a crime like this with a guy they didn't know. Guede, on the other hand, had form for breaking and entering, and these type of sexual attacks are usually carried out by young men.

[Portofino]

They were at Sollecito's flat that night apparently. The only witness that put them elsewhere was a tramp, who couldn't remember what day it was he saw them.

[redandgreen]

Most likely AK and RS were just so stoned they can't remember anything clearly and so can't explain what they were doing exactly. But it's clear they weren't in MK's room.

Portofino has the footprint thing right.

Also the knife stuff earlier - the kitchen knife could have killed Meredith but couldn't possibly have made another of the injuries. The defense teams both contested it's likelihood as being involved on grounds of it's size as well.

[Portofino]

And they would have to have taken it with them from RS's flat too of course.....

[Portofino]

which makes more of mockery of the "sex game gone wrong" theory imho. If it was a "game" then why did RS happen to have one of his kitchen knives with him? It would imply premeditation - and no-one, as I recall - has suggested that they planned to do it....

[redandgreen]

Yes, the prosecution have AK carrying around the kitchen knife for protection on a regular basis. A 30cm knife just kicking about her big handbag.

[Portofino]

But she and RS had only been going out a week....can you imagine " Is it alright if I borrow your big knife, just in case...?." Presumably there were knives in the AK/MK flat.

[redandgreen]

The whole knife thing is just SO bizarre. The prosecuter just rifling through RS's kitchen picking a knife that doesn't fit the crime and then doggedly sticking with it through all the evidence from 4 or 5 forensic experts for both sides that explain in very clear terms why it doesn't fit.

And that they would take it back to RS's, clean it and replace it in the drawer

[KellyKettle]

Apologies if this has already been asked but what does Guedes confession say about Knox & Sollecito's involvement?

How does it tie in with forensics evidence?

[Portofino]

He says he was there, but that THEY killed her. He wasn't identified/arrested til later on. It doesn't tie in with the forensics really, as in only his DNA was present at the scene, and the bloody footprint that DID exist matched his shoes.

[Portofino]

He apologised to the Kercher family for his "part" in it and had his sentence reduced to 16 years. The Prosecution already increased the other 2's sentences and now want to push for Life.

[Hullygully]

If you read everything about it very very thoroughly, you couldn't possibly think she'd dunnit.



The Italian police are desperate not to look like mugs.

[kelly2000]

Guede says (I believe) he was there with meredith, went to the loo, and came back when he heard shouts to find Sollecito and Knox having killed meredith.
i think this case is suffering from the CIS effect, people get it into their head that DNA evidence must always be present in huge amounts, and do not realise it is fairly easy to destroy, and then think that only DNA evidence is admissable in court. Look at the Rosemary west case, there was actually not one drop of DNA evidence to say she had anything to do with the killings, it was just circumstantial, her husband a confessed seriel killer accusing her in tapes, and witnesses who said she had attacked them. DNA evidence being so retreivable is a relatively new thing, in the west case the victims were not even identified with DNA, whereas today it would be a lot easier to get DNA from them.
I wish I could read technical Italian better, as i am always wary of using unofficial translations as things can get mixed up so easily. It is difficult for people with no legal training to read through English cases even if English si their first language, so I am wary of trusting translations carried out by people without a qualification in legal translation.

[kelly2000]

The woman whose work on the DNA is being torn to shreds by Knox supporters also did the DNA analysis of a vicious murder in the UK, of a mother by her Italian neighbour, I believe. I wonder if the judges decide her evidence was flawed in this case whether the defense lawyers in the English case will call for a retrial.