Are your children stuck in a "materialistic trap"? Your thoughts on Unicef's report about British children and family time, please!

[HelenMumsnet]

Hello.

We wanted to let you know (if you haven't seen it already) that Unicef have just published a report in which they said that British children are caught in a "materialistic trap".

British children, they say, aren't able to spend enough time with their families (because British parents work such long hours) and their parents, feeling the pressure, "buy them off with branded goods".

"Consumer culture in the UK contrasts starkly with Sweden and Spain," say Unicef in their report, "where family time is prioritised, children and families are under less pressure to own material goods and children have greater access to activities out of the home."

What's your reaction to this? Do you agree with Unicef - or not?

And, if you agree, what could we all do about it?

Exotic, there is a lot in your post that makes sense as well, especially the thing about children effectively being consumer goods. But I can't help thinking we feed that beast if we also have the flip side, i.e. childcare costs are your problem, extended family is too busy having fun to look after your children, if you want children you should expect to suffer a bit in career or health or social terms because it's your fault for having them, and so on. I have seen versions of all these attitudes here on MN and also hear them in RL, and to me it seems a very negative view of children and their families.

Exotic speaks a lot of sense..

My Dc, My rules... you'd be laughed off the street for saying that in Spain!!

If you spend long reading MN you get a very negative view of family life! The majority of women don't even seem to see that DH doesn't come alone, they come with parents, siblings, cousins, great uncles etc etc etc. It never seems to occur to them that they need to develop their own relationship, they can see them without DH they can buy them a birthday present because it is 'your' mother, 'your' responsibility-there is no it is 'my' MIL and I would like to buy her a present she would really like. They are not people you would necessarily choose and therefore you have to actually make an effort in the beginning. All rather difficult if MIL has seen your DH as my DS and expects him to choose a wife that she likes!

Parents can't have it all. Both parents can have a high power, child unfriendly hours job. It doesn't matter which one gets off the ladder, they may even swap at times but one has to get off-unless you go for a nanny and boarding school.
I have been a hands on mother for a long, long time having a huge gap in ages.If I am a grandmother I will love it, but I am not going to do regular childcare-I have done my bit and now want a life to travel etc before I get too old. It is unlikely that I will live close enough anyway. I will of course look after them and I will drop things in an emergency.
If you choose DCs you will have to give up a bit on career, or DH will, your social life will be more difficult-you can't go off for the weekend alone at the 'drop of a hat'. Quality childcare costs-why would you want your precious DC with sub standard,cheap childcare? Why should the tax payer pay for it?

I wouldn't call it suffering. I chose to have DCs-I loved it-but they were my job- and my problem.

And it cuts the other way too: you would be tut-tutted off the tram in Sweden for shouting at your toddler.

Sorry-the exact opposite of what I meant-both parents can't have high powered jobs!!

Don't worry.. we got you!

Oh dear, I think your argument completely highlights the negative attitudes towards children I was trying to portray, Exotic, which puzzles me as I thought you had a bit more insight. It saddens me.

My Dc, My rules... you'd be laughed off the street for saying that in Spain!!

I laugh at it here-it is such rubbish. In your own home it is true-but absolutely nowhere else. You can control yourself-not anyone else.

Crossed wires there, girls?

About getting off the ladder: I think part of the problem is that the rungs of the ladder are very high up in this country. People expect to go back to work early, work long hours and have minimum time off with sick children etc- if you can't comply you've dropped off the ladder.

In Sweden nobody seems to expect your career to be incompatible with family life: maternity leave is long, overtime is less prevalent, nurseries are subsidised, there is an expectation that men will use at least some of their paternity leave and definitely that men will take their turn with the vomiting offspring.

I am not sure that Swedes are really less materialistic or more resilient as individuals- I think they have made themselves a society that places less demands and offers more support. So in a sense they are lazier and less self-sacrificing.

So are you saying, SeniorWrangler, that once my parents have given me a wonderful childhood, a good education, supported me until I was 22yrs old, gave up a lot (as both lots of grandparents were dead), my mother stayed at home-I should then expect them to do day to day childcare so that I can 'have it all' and they shouldn't be free to do all the things they sacrificed all those years.
Are you supposed to wait until you are very elderly before you get chance to do your own thing?

Having said this, comparing statistics don't really give an idea of what life is like for most people in the countries you describe and selecting a sample as representative, particularly a small one, can pose difficulties, as it is not necessarily the same groups that struggle in different countries.

How was my mother supposed to do handon child care anyway when she lives in the Midlands, I live 170 miles south, one brother lives 120 miles north and the other brother in the SW? Is she supposed to move-and which one does she move next to?
My eldest is working in Europe-if he has DCs how do I help his DW 'have it all'?

Spain - where grandparents do a lot of childcare - was only one of the countries comparing favourably to the UK. The other was Sweden, where childcare is mainly in the hands of the state.

The way things are going, grandparents are going to have to work till their 70, if not further. They won't be able to provide regular childcare.

Personally, I'm not overly fond of babies and toddlers. I will make that patentnly clear to my children when it comes to childcare. Of course, I'll have to work FT till I'm either dead or doolally, so I won't be able to provide regular childcare.

Reading back I meant 'my joy and my problem'. You do not have to have DCs and the world doesn't owe you a living if you decide to have them. Grandparents have a different role-they shouldn't be the ones getting them to eat cabbage and clean their teeth-they have been there, done that and got the t shirt! They should be the ones to fly kites and bake cakes etc.

Good point Sansa-not all grandparents are out having fun-many are working in the highpower, child unfriendly hours jobs that they gave up earlier-having got back on the ladder!!

I don't agree with expecting gradnparents to do regular childcare. As other posters have said, they have done their bit as parents. They deserve their retirement to enjoy, if they are lucky enough to be well.

Of course, some families may be willing and able to do it, but many do not want to or cannot, and I think the government is pushing that idea to deflect from other problems in the UK such as expensive childcare.

I'm in my 40s and was an older mother. If my own children go the same way, there's a pretty good chance I'll be dead and therefore not able to help with the kids.

I don't think UNICEF would believe that the best thing for everybody is the gps looking after the kids.. and several examples spring to mind of kids being spoilt be gps who are just too tired to discipline..

I think it's more a question of how beneficial the "it takes a village" mentality is to ALL parties.

IME, grandparents do not make good regular childcarers, and I say that with the benefit of two sets of devoted grandparents on either side!

the problem with using gandparents for regular childcare is, that they will start to interfer on how to do things.

i see it all the time with friends who have their parents caring for their children, the childrens parents want to do things one way the gps a different way.

IME grandparents tend to baby the children a bit - they are frightened of accidents or something untoward happening to the children in their care and tend to keep the children very close to them. And they don't tolerate other children (playdates etc) very well.

Also, I think here in teh UK, we had a generation, perhaps two, where the grandparents were able to live quite nearby, but separately. Those days are in the past.

And truthfully, as my DH is from an extended family, it generally means living under one roof or similar. With the ILs who are providing the care. And possibly the parents, too (for one part of the couple, it will be ILs) and/or siblings and their spouses.

How many folks on here can truly say, 'Oh, yeah, I could hack living with my ILs?'

Not me

They NEVER help us out, though.. so I refuseto feel guilty for that!