The Dorries amendment will be a free vote - keep the pressure on

[WilsonFrickett]

Lots of press today saying that the govt has decided to vote against ND's ridiculous amendment. While this is good news, it will still be a free vote, with individual MPs able to vote as they please. If you were thinking about emailing your MP on this issue please still do so - the result isn't a foregone conclusion.

From the Guardian article:

...a combination of the unpredictable intake of new Tory MPs, split between social conservatives and modernisers, the number of Roman Catholic Labour MPs, and the high degree of nuance of the amendment make it extremely unclear which way the vote will go.

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/31/downing-street-uturn-abortion-proposals

Furthermore, if ever it was proven that BPAS did make a profit then the government would have legal redress against them and they would lose their charity status.

Wilson, you said:

"the prices you quote above suggest that perhaps - just perhaps - BPAS isn't making a profit"

I was pointing out that you wouldn't be able to tell that from those figures. -

"unless we know how much the abortion actually costs, we can't determine whether BPAS makes a profit from those figures above. "

Bumbley BPAS is not for profit . That's how you determine they don't make a profit.

I don't really know how else to make that point?

BPAS is a not for profit chairty, if anyone has any evidence they are acting illegally and making a profit they should go to the police rather than throwing false claims around. I wish Marie Stopes would take Dorries to court for claiming they make a profit etc, but as they are a not for profit charity they probably could not justify the costs and no doubt if they did people would claim that proved they had too much money.

It's on now. Health and Social care Bill debate on fruit loop's amendment. Diane Abbott is a fucking star.

Anyone can view the details of the charities income and spending on the Charity Commission website.

BPAS here

Marie Stopes here

Based on last year's figues, BPAS spent almost exactly the same amount that it recieved in income, whereas Marie Stopes actually spent more on charitable activities than it raised in income. In both cases any surplus from 1 year has to be carried over and used for charitable activities in the next or subsequent years - no money can be taken out of the charity.

HTH.

'A shoddy ill-conceived attempt to promote non-facts to make a non-case, namely that tens of thousand of women a year are either not getting counselling that they request or are getting counselling that is so poor that only new legislation car remedy the situation.'

'If legislation is the answer you've almost certainly asked the wrong question.'

'This amendment is the opposite of evidence based policy making. We know that the BMA advises it's members that 'A decision to terminate a pregnancy is never an easy one. In making these decisions patients and doctors should ensure that the decision is supported by appropriate information and counselling about the options and implications.''

'Royal College of Obstetricians Gynaecologists guidlance on abortion states, 'Women should be given counselling according to their need, including post abortion if she needs it..'

You said it, NarkyPuffin, Diane Abbott shows how an MP should behave.

Liked her 'British Common Sense' statement

Cont. RCOG guidance

'All women should be offered stand alone counselling. The counselling should include: implications counselling - aims to enable the person concerned to understand the course of action; support counselling - aims to give them emotional support in terms of stress; therapeutic counselling - aims to help the people with the consequences of their decision and the consequences that may arise as a result.'

'The Department of Health regulations state (that) 'counselling must be offered to women who request or appear to need help in deciding on the management of their pregnancy or who have difficulty in coping emotionally.'

'We also know that all of these clinics we have heard discussed in the debate so far are inspected and regulated. And yet the proposers of this amendment are asking us to believe on the basis of purely anecdotal 'evidence', that tens of thousands of doctors, nurses and charity workers involved in the 190,00 abortions a year, are willfully ignoring both the law and the guidance of the BMA and Royal Colleges. And they go further than that. They argue that tens of thousands of doctors and nurses and charity workers are merely in this for the money.'

Very late to this thread, sorry. Is there a live bloggy thing anywhere following the debate? I've only found the BBC's democracy live page, and unfortunately I can't follow it because I'm at work and can't use headphones.

Goodness me - Frank Field has turned against the Amendment now

I believe good sense will prevail :)

Although it looks like I could just follow you, MNP . Thanks!

This is looking good then? :)

'The proposers of the amendment imply that these men and women are involved in some sort of grotesque piecework. It is almost as if they are paid per abortion. And the proposers on this amendment, I might add, also seem to be arguing that thousands of women don't actually know what they're doing.'

I'd try the guardian blog or BBC parliament ScrabledSmegs.

I'm just reporting some of Dianne Abbott's kicking arse as Shadow Public Health Minister.

The Health Minister wants to meet the 'spirit of the amendments'.

Twitter is saying the Frank Field has essentially just told Dorries to shut up! Is this true?

I haven't gotten to that yet. I'm on a delay.

Twitter is on top form right now

Twitter saying "Ayes: 118 Noes: 368"

Wonder who the 118 were? Does anyone know if there is anywhere you can check how your MP voted?

Just been reading the Guardian's blogging of Dorrie's speechifying . Is it me or is it incredibly garbled and contradictory? Might be the way it's been reported but I doubt it.

Oh, and according to the Grauniad, Frank Field stood up while she was still talking "to suggest that she would help her cause if she were to finish now". ie STFU!

YAY!!!!

"Oh, and according to the Grauniad, Frank Field stood up while she was still talking "to suggest that she would help her cause if she were to finish now". ie STFU!"

I love that!