Kick em out of council housing

[Ryoko]

I'm sorry but has this country completely given over to morons?.

So the out of touch idiot MPs want to kick the families of those involved out of Council housing, where is the justice?, am I the only one that remembers why the symbols of justice are a blindfold and set of scales?.

All those involved must be treated equally regardless of background, take the council homes away from the poor if you must, but also kick the rich from their homes for the actions of their stupid student spawn, kick the workers out of their rented flats for the stupidity that will cost them their jobs.

Change the record, the MPs have had it in for the poor for years endlessly blaming them for everything while turning a blind eye to white collar crime and tax avoidance, endlessly trying to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. with more and more news coming out the cases that are in court, the kids under 12, the Olympic ambassador, the upper class student, the 30 something teaching assistant etc it's clear to everyone this is not about unemployed teens in council estates, yet the MPs refuse to open their eyes and stop stamping on the poor.

Benefits are not enough to live on? Not enough to hire a skip to get rid of bulky items? My Father moved into his council house with not a penny to his name. Him and his brother used a wheelbarrow and did numerous trips on foot instead. People have always had to get rid of bulky items and some people manage without flytipping and expecting someone else to do it. The people I see living on council estates, on benefits, with no one in the household employed manage to run a car, have sky TV, take foreign holidays and drink and smoke. So paying to clear your own shit should not be a problem.

And yes, it happens on my private estate too, just not as often.

hahahahahahaha

how do you know 'not as often'?? are you keeping tabs/spreadsheet?

or just generalising?

It's not as often on the estate I live on, compared to the one my Mother and Grandmother live on.

But go ahead, keep your rose tinted glasses on why don't you.

custardcake

i think you are either being disingenuous or you don't know that you're doing it.

A rich person that loses their uni place or one career option is hardly the same as a poor person losing their home.

Can't you see the difference?

We're all, in some way, punished by the riots. Insurance, whether it be car or home will go up etc. Shops, to cover increasing insurance premiums will put their prices up and so it goes on.

Of course if some folk don't already pay these costs then they won't be affected....

THERES ALL TOO MANY FUCKING CUSTARDS AROUND HERE, WHAT WITH YOU THE HAMSTER AND SWIMMING UPHILL, GET AN EFFING ORIGINAL NAME

The middle class view of the poor.

"ungrateful swine, we give them money for nothing so they can sit on their fat arses smoking and drinking and a roof over their heads what more do those scum bags want?".

The poors view of the state.

"I can't do anything on £60 a week and I want out of this awful place, why will no one help me?, why can't I get a loan or a grant or something so I can get training, apprenticeship or education so I can get a job, why am I left to rot,and get endlessly insulted by people who don't know me?".

If they are on £60 a week benefits then an interest free loan IS available.

And training
They could even do an open university course free.....or a full degree free!!

Opportunities are there

That depends actually, when I was signing on I was told if I went to college they would cut my dole money off because the cause I wanted to do was weekdays between 9 and 5 and they said that would be me making myself unavailable for work.

This has all digressed into bullshit anyway about people seeing others as having it better then them without knowing anything about people circumstances, my family have lived on the same estate for over 30 years, my dad has a car and sat TV, but he's only had 3 cars in his life and is in his late 70's now, the massive satellite on the house is massive because it's not Sky, it's picking up free to air channels from mainland europe and we fitted it ourselves years ago, he is a retired civil servant on a public sector pension, my mum is on a state pension and my sister is diabetic with blind spots in her vision who has been on the dole for over 20 years since she had to leave her job due to eye trouble.

So by some of you they shouldn't be there as they have sat TV which "must" cost money every year, a car and a perfectly fine looking able bodied woman living there who has been unemployed for too long to be normal.

Anyway the point of the thread is Justice is meant to fit the crime not the social background of the suspect, to tailor the punishment to the person rather then the crime is to completely lose the idea of the legal system being blind to who you are, it's bad enough white collar crime has hardly ever been tackled without eroding the the respect for the law more so by making a two tier system into a three tiered one.

a request for an MN campaign on this issue

If you feel strong enough about this plain, public injustice, can you please pop over there and add your voice?

ta.

My take on this is what do you want to achieve? Do you just want to punish? Or do you want to send a message to other would-be offenders? I think this is a knee-jerk, simplistic reaction and whilst it will no doubt prove very popular with a lot of people, I really don't see that it will achieve much. It certainly won't save money. These people will still have to be housed. Also, I don't think it will deter others from committing crimes of this nature. Some of the looting was carefully planned by gangs, but a lot of it was carried out by impulsive individuals who saw an opportunity and who were caught up in the frenzy. Not that I'm excusing it - there really is no excuse. But if we want to prevent similar mass destruction occurring again I think we are going to have to come up with some more imaginative strategies than taking away peoples homes.

ladylush - could you post that on the thread, please? ta.

We need legislation which would mandate the following:

If you are living in Social Housing, and you or a member of your family is involved in Civil disorder, you'll be evicted, and you lose your rights to benefits for 3 years.

For those who think this discriminates against poor people, no problem. Lets also say private owner occupiers are liable for the full amount of the damage they cause during periods of civil disorder. The amount to be decided by the courts.

So, you repossess their privately owned house & car (or that of the parents if it's their kids who are rioting). And sling them out on the streets.

Will this mean people will be turfed out on the streets with nowhere to go?

Not at all. The final part of the legislation would create a new tax, which can be opted out of at the start of each tax year. This tax would be ringfenced to continue providing housing and free money for the evicted rioters, and enable the Bleeding Hearts amongst you to continue to do your bit.

I can save some cash and maybe be able to afford my mortgage/heating this winter.

Meanwhile, newly empty houses could be used for, lets think... Ex-forces, nurses, the elderly, the disabled.....?

Actually we DON'T need legislation for that. There are other laws that cover crime. It's the only way that they can attempt to keep the punishment equal for criminals of different financial backgrounds.

So you're saying take away their benefits, but create a new tax that gives them benefits and such. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, as the only difference is a middle group of administration being paid unnecessarily. You wouldn't happen to already work in government, would you?

Hehe no I don't work in government. 15 years as a worker in the private sector.

I guess what I'm saying in a roundabout (and ranty) way, is that I don't want any of my taxes supporting the people / households involved in the recent civil disorder.

Plenty people on here seem to want to continue giving them benefits no matter what happens. It's those people that are boiling my piss at the moment. And it's those people who should pay.

The journey I had going through Croydon last week to get home to my family, will live with me for the rest of my life. I've never known fear like it! 2 friends almost burned alive in their flats. It leaves an impression...

Nope, sorry. I don't agree. I don't like what they've done, but those who live in council housing shouldn't be punished any differently than the wealthy culprits.

You have to look at it logically, regardless of who you know that was involved or hurt. This swing to take the benefits of their families is a knee jerk reaction. Justice is measured, not reactionary. The punishments need to be the same.

We live in council housing, and although we don't make a whole lot of money, I'm well aware that it's not just poor living in council housing. However, I think in this thread, people are screaming for those who are in council housing and on benefits to lose both, which is why I was mainly discussing that aspect of it.