Tottenham rioting

[sfxmum]

has anyone heard? seems to be all over Twitter but not on other media
apparently police cars burning

This is truly awful, I remember the last riots and IIRC it rumbled on for a few nights after the initial terrible night. Now the rentamobs are more organised with mobiles and social networking and, thanks to last night, they understand that if they set fire to lots of buildings it keeps the emergency services back. We can only hope and pray that no one is found dead in the residential properties and that it doesn't start again tonight in Haringey or anywhere else that has tense relations with the police.

I can't help thinking that someone they respect should stand up and tell them that if you point a gun, real or not, at an armed police officer they will shoot you in the head. They don't fire to wound when fired upon.

What do you mean their own community? Do you not realise that people have come from all over London? Not just people from this area. I read this and it is my sentiments exactly:

"Last night I was so angry with people who choose this way to destroy my community. I live in Tottenham and I have been sick of the sneery ways that people regard us. Some of the 'twitter jokes' last night were really really sad and almost broke my heart with the way that some people thought this was a big joke or that Tottenham isn't 'worth saving'.

There are a lot of very good people here. The looting wasn't a part of the demonstration. People came from all over London to 'join in' and the community I live in has been ruined.
Now, beyond the anger, I'm sad, desperately sad.
This wasn't just about a policing, this was about mindless violence and aggression by disaffected and alienated youth and not just in Tottenham.
Meanwhile the people I know, the shops I visit, my neighbours have had their lives ripped apart and the community which is wracked by poverty and joblessness is further labeled and further disadvantaged.
I don't want people to think that Tottenham is a hopeless place. It is my home and my community and I love living here but I really truly despise people who have destroyed it."

I think everyone already knows that if you pull a gun on a cop, you get shot in the head. That's why this whole story doesn't make a lot of sense.

It's not just the Menezes case, look at Ian Tomlinson. The initial story was that the cops were trying to save the life of a heart attack victim but were having bottles and things thrown at them by protesters. Except oh wait, someone got it on video and actually it was a cop who assaulted the guy and the protesters who tried to save his life.

Isn't there CCTV coverage in tottenham?

SardineQueen I'm sure that is standard procedure though? They can hardly investigate themselves can they? It MUST be passed to another branch surely? The family and the public are being very naive if they think the police involved (or their direct superiors) will be in a position to regale them with loads of information in an informal chat designed to make them feel better.

From the moment the man died, everything those officers say to anyone will be under scrutiny and will be recorded for any impending enquiry and/or court case. It is only right that they have time to gather their thoughts and prepare their statements, as any person accused of a crime would be able to do, with their solicitor.

What worries me is that this has highlighted the fact that if a mob of people want to loot and burn there's not that much the police can do.

There are so many people who don't respect of fear the law these days that this could have given them the message that they can maruade through stores and grab what they want. A bit like muggings en masse. And worst they could do that in people's homes.

Apparently Mark Duggan was shot TWICE, wouldn't ONE bullet have been enough?

I am a Tottenham girl, I grew up there and live ten minutes away now. I am deeply upset by what is happening to my community.

There has been a history of young black men dying in police custody in this country and Tottenham is a place where the young people feel they cannot trust the police.

Reports say that the riot escalated after a young woman was assaulted by a police officer.

Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if that were truly the case.

Someone mentioned Ian Tomlinson earlier and after having seen people have run ins with the police myself during protests and the like, I am inclined to think this is a situation sparked by police brutality.

Tottenham is a community of people trying very hard to bring their neighbourhood into a state of prosperity, and unfortunately this is a massive step back for everyone.

The rioters were not all from the local community and as a resident I can honestly say that I am sure many rioters came in from surrounding areas and even further afield parts of London to fuel negative tensions.

All I hope is that we do get honest answers over the death of Mark Duggan, another black man to die in police custody in the area.

nick - I'm pretty sure there will have been a lot of interpersonal violence and burglaries/robberies been commited - it's just that the head lines are elsewhere.

fellatio you seriously believe it is correct that the police offer no support to the family of someone they have killed?

I can't see how that is correct at all.

Good post LDNmummy.

Time and time again the police say there is no problem, that they are not racist, that they didn't hit someone, that they shot the man for good reason, and time and time again it is proven that is not true.

I am not surprised that people are angry.

nicknames there have been riots before and there will be again. This is not the first time it has happened, and it has never become a frequent event. I don't think you need to worry.

Look at the Los Angeles riots in 1992, which were really hard core (I think 50 people died?) and sparked by one particular case of police brutality. There was a lot of commentary along the lines of, oh look at those scum, oh they're so stupid burning down their own town. Then the investigations afterward turned up massive and systemic police corruption there were policemen running their own drugs syndicates as well as racially motivated brutality. They've cleaned things up a lot since then.

I'm not saying this is going on in Tottenham, but at least from my experience in the US the cities with the most disturbances and instability were those that also had police forces seen as corrupt and brutal.

I am not anti-police, obviously many of them are good and selfless people, and they unfortunately bear the brunt of society's problems (e.g. the police can't create jobs for people yet they have to deal with the effects of high unemployment and poverty).

But a few bad men can ruin things for everyone else, give the entire force a bad name. The police should acknowledge this and do everything they can to counter this image, not pretend it's not happening or people are just lying.

Talk on twitter of plans for more of the same in wood green and also Enfield town later :(

You carry a gun in public, you can't then grizzle when someone turns one on you.
Seems like scum and thugs think it's okay to live by the sword but complain violently when they then die by it.

Ho hum.

That is not what I said, SQ and I have no idea, TBH, how much or how little support they were offered in the immediate aftermath. I'm not saying the police force should not offer support - I am saying that under unusual and serious circumstances like this it is unrealistic for the family or the public to expect immediate access to/information from the actual officers/station involved. The investigation would not be conducted solely by them, and they would be told to say nothing except to the investigators, surely?

I wonder what the family's reasons/excuses for him carrying a gun are?

Probably his "human right" to carry one ......!!!!!!!!!!

And someone will think that this is a valid case for this guy to have a loaded weapon .... So shockingly sad and stupid.

I've been talking about the police failing to offer the family support all through the thread though, and as your comments were addressed to my posts I imagined that you were talking about that too.

Sorry my post there was in response to fellatio. Hmm that doesn't sound quite right!

An armed gangster got shot. So sad.

I know Jane.
Though I expect he , " Never hurt no one what wasn't one of his own."

that's just way too simplistic, janelikesjam - he was also someone's son, father to 4 children and someone's partner/husband - he was a human being, not just an armed "gangster". It IS sad for his family and they have a right to grieve for him and know what happened - but the rent-a-mob thugs are using this event to demonstrate tensions that have been building for some time, by the sounds of it.

A human being who gave up his rights not to be shot the day he decided it was his right to carry an illegal weapon on our streets and then use it against a police officer.

Who says he was a gangster? Someone further down the thread said he had no criminal record. I don't know if that's true, mind, but the gangster idea seems to be mud thrown at a dead man who can't defend himself.

SardineQueen why should they offer them support their son tried to shoot a police officer the whole thing is awful

The only support they need to to teach their children if you want to play at being a gansta it will come to a bad end
The cheek of the family going to protest when it was their son who shoot first and the police must of thought he was dangerous to dispatch the gun squad in the first place

The whole thing is sick you can shoot at the police then riot then every one will give your more services if I had my way I would stitch the whole of that area off and let them to it

It is not the family who were armed gangsters. They deserve some support from the Police and this is why they demonstrated peacefully in the first place. The ensuing criminal element,both from inside and outside Tottenham,were separate from the family's grievences.