drunken consent

[stitch]

this is the sort of thing that really annoys me.
some silly woman gets drunk, has sex with bloke, then ruins his life by saying he raped her. i totally agree with the judge. drunken consent is still consent.
if you totally didnt want sex, then you shouldnt have got yourself so drunk that you cant remember whether you consented or not. rape is obvious as it happens. not after the fact. ask the real victims of rape.
i just feel that this sort of attitude belittles how horrific a crime it really is.
oops, should have done the link first.
here

I am absolutely opposed to this concept that we should somehow blame women if they are raped. Women are raped by men because men think they can get away with it - and clearly, in very many cases, they can. Please, those of you with daughters, don't go telling them that as long as they stay sober and don't wear short skirts they will be okay - that is dangerous rubbish. I was raped when I was 13 for no other reason than that I was a 13 year old girl.

nothing is ever black and white.
if you look at my original post, i said that in this instance it was not a case of a man forcing a woman to have sex when she expressly said no. consent is conesent.. whether drunk or sober. the man was stupid, a lech, definitly a bad un......but not a rapist.
rape is a horrendous crime. as others have said so far more eloquently than i have. what happened to, for example, dinosaur, is in no ways comparable to this. to bunch them all in the same category is belittling their loss.

stitch, the whole point of this case is that we don't know what happened, because she can't remember.

Therefore we don't know whether he forced himself on her or not.

As such, then the law has to find him not guilty of the crime of rape, as there is reasonable doubt that he did it.

also, i would never blame a woman for being raped, however, i will encourage my daughter, and sons to learn to take responsibility for their actions.
so if dd were to go out and get plastered like this girl, then she should do so knowing that she is putting herself at risk. if she chooses to accept the risk, fine. and does all she can to ensure her safety. fine.
similarly i would encourage my sons know that no means no. and not put themselves in a situation wher the girl might change her mind. andif she does, tp respect that.

high sounding morals. god knows how i will acheive ths

But the girl in question knows her own mind, and knows she would never consent to sex in a corridor. Imagine waking up the next day realising this had happenned.

This man is a shit.

I am so not comfortable with this drunken consent is still consent line. I can now see lots of men accused of rape saying 'well seh was drunk but it's still consent' and the poor victim having to prove waht she drank and how much.

How many of you with daughters in this position would say to her 'well, you were drunk afterall darling' Not me. I'd want to string him up by his balls. I hope he has been sacked.

If two people were drunk it wouldn't happen. How one can use their power over someone so drunk and deny it is rape is beyond me. If someone had had their bag taken while drunk would it not be robbery? This kind of judgement happens and is left all too often, these judges should be stripped of their powers, power is all he used, power again stripped this poor woman bare how this poor woman must be now is beyond contemplation.

This is just daft. Drinking is part of thr culture our kids grow up in like it or not. Why is ot only women who have to be responsible when under the influence. In all this talk is the tacit ageement that it's femininity itself that incites rape. That it's implicitly a woman's fault.

I have been close to attempted rape on three occasions after a night out with lots of drink. It is dreadfully prevalent in our society, unfortunately. There are many more men than we think who would be willing to take advantage of a comatose woman - alcohol has a lot to answer for, but there is an underlying lack of respect for females that contributes to this as well - the men who respect women wouldn't dream of doing such a hting even if they were paraletic.

Indeed teavee. And there is alot to be said about men who like to ply women with drink as a means to an end. Its just not right.

Although I have only 'skim-read' this thread I'm absolutely gobsmacked and furious at what some of you are saying. What a harsh lot you are.
How can someone being drunk to the point of being comatose have brought the prospect of rape on herself. Instead of thinking of this girl as some silly little tart who led this (poor, innocent ha-ha) man on, why not try thinking of her as your daughter who after a few too many ended up in a terrible situation she had no control over.
And as for not helping the 'real' victims of rape, its not people like this girl who are to blame it's the men who do it and the women (like some of you) who blame vicimts, for being drunk or wearing short skirts or flirting, that really make things bad for all victims.
Oh and if my son had done what this man had done, I would disown him and I would think that he should be jailed.

Unscrupulous men have been 'slipping the mickey' to make women more 'accessible' for generations.

Tabitha, I agree. This thread has really made me [angry not only because something similar happened to me.

Let's turn the debate on it's head for a moment. Why aren't we all arguing about how men should watch how much they drink in case they get accused of rape? How come it's not THEIR fault for drinking too much?

Are men all poor little loves who can't control themselves? Frankly, if I was a man, I'd be indulted by that.

Tabitha, I agree. This thread has really made me [angry not only because something similar happened to me.

Let's turn the debate on it's head for a moment. Why aren't we all arguing about how men should watch how much they drink in case they get accused of rape? How come it's not THEIR fault for drinking too much?

Are men all poor little loves who can't control themselves? Frankly, if I was a man, I'd be insulted by that.

Apologies for the double post there.

o fgs, no one is saying the girl is to blame
the only thing being said is that this isnt rape. its a stupid, vile, lecherous thing to do. but its not rape.

I don't think people are blaming the victim for being drunk and therefore deserving to be raped. It is just a fact that being drunk to the point of comatose makes it difficult for her to prove that she was not raped.

What happened is a real tragedy.

Oops, too many double negatives. Take out the "not".

My understanding of English (and presumably Welsh) law is that the definition of rape is: "sexual intercourse with a person who at the time of intercourse does not consent to it" e.g. a man who happened by chance on a female he did not know and had sexual intercourse with her should be convicted of rape. The situation in Scotland is, apparently different, and it would not be rape but a lesser charge, perhaps 'clandestine injury'.
From this website
Bearing this in mind, I think what has happened to this girl is rape although obviously extremely difficult to prove.
However, the arguments obviously go far beyond this individual case.
Funnily enough, I discussed this with dh who said that they'd been talking about this case at his work (all men) and they all thought the guy should have been charged with rape. He was shocked that other women could think that the victim in some way 'deserved it'.

It seems to me that this man is a complete sleaze, whether or not the woman gave consent to sex. Let's hope that he never gets another shag, because his face has been in the paper!

Dont get how it can be vile and lecherous but not rape.

tabitha, no one says she deserved it.

Message withdrawn

Haven't read whole thread but have seen reports in newspapers and I agree with essbee - if this girl was so pissed she can't remember what she said then she can't be considered to have "consented". Many men will shag anything with a pulse, however drunk.

stitch said "if you totally didnt want sex, then you shouldnt have got yourself so drunk that you cant remember whether you consented or not." I can't express how much that statement infuriates me, even more from a woman than from a man.

Message withdrawn

Yeah, those of you going to the meetup this weekend, be careful, eh?