Absent fathers to be made into scape goats

[ivykaty44]

absent fathers

as a single mother who has lived without maintenence for periods of time and at times struggled to make ends meet I still think it is awful to suggest making a group of people stigmatised.

there are good NoneResidentParents and there are useless NRP, it isn't just absent fathers but sometimes absent mothers. What sort of country do we live in thuogh where we would want to stigmatise a whole group of people.

Better to keep the CSA free and make it work rather than the clerical mess it is at the moment.

Allnew, does your H contact the school his DCs are now enrolled in, find out their grades, progress, homework, etc? That is playing an active part in education, not insisting that the children stay in a school that might be inconvenient for the residential parent to get to. An active part in education means an everyday part, not a once off decision on where the children attend school. Similarly, I do not know what is stopping your H asking the school to increase his DCs' allocation of tickets so that he at least gets one when he wants one.

There is no reason for him to have to go to lengths to find out about school events either -- why not contact the school and ask that he be sent a copy of the month's schedule of events or whatever calendar the school sends to parents?

And surely it is possible for your H to find a specialist who works the hours your H has the DSS in order to take him to speech therapy himself? To claim that there is absolutely no way full stop to do anything and that his hands are completely tied smacks of poor ickle put-upon me syndrome. Your H's ex is within her rights to restrict access to court stipulated hours. If your H was trying to horn in on the hours his ex has with her child, then yes, she has every right to refuse. 'Active part in health by NRP - impossible' is a swipe with a very broad brush.

wrt the forums where disaffected men gather to air their grievances -- why not hire a solicitor instead of endlessly licking his wounds in the company of miserable woman-bashers? I hope your H realises there are two sides to every single hard done by story he encounters among the losers on those forums.

Yes call NRPs losers, that clearly meets your agenda. Indeed there are 2 sides to very story, so to call them 'losers' shows that you yourself can't see this

Who said he was 'licking his wounds'?
Hire a solicitor to do what exactly?

"Your H's ex is within her rights to restrict access to court stipulated hours" - indeed. Meaning they regularly miss fun family events & lots of other stuff they have said they would like to attend and really don't understand why mum won't let them (one of them is approaching 16 btw). Not sure what a solicitor can do about that really, as courts aren't interested in access orders at that age. So yes, she is legally within her rights. That's clearly what's most important

marycorporate, the 60% statistic includes private arrangements as well as the CSA. The CSA has something like a 60% success rate, which considering it is a government agency is rather poor. Even more so when you include that among that 60% success rate they include people on benefits who are paying the princely sum of £5 per week in maintenance.

allnew I can appreciate you are sitting on the other side of the fence with this and I can understand why you feel that your DH, who you feel is doing his best to meet his obligations, is being victimised, while his EX, who his doing her best to be difficult, is getting away scot free and being elevated to saintly status. You are of course entitled to your opinion and your own feelings on the matter. However, I am also entitled to mine, and the difference with mine is that it is backed up by research and cold, hard facts. Your posts on here are very, very aggressive and bitter and simply suggest that you are allowing your personal experiences to cloud your judgment.

You have my sympathy for the situation you find yourself in, and I have never, not once on this thread advocated that resident parents should be given carte blanche to use their 'power' to abuse their Xs. However, nasty X wives are a mere drop in the ocean compared to the number of men who take no responsibility for their children, either emotionally, practically or financially, and you can argue all you like that it is because women are preventing them from doing so but it cannot explain those vast numbers away - there are simply too many of them.

The government is never going to step in and regulate the role NRPs play in their child's life. They have enshrined parental responsibility in law and set up courts to rule on contact arrangements and that's all they can do. They can't tell people how to run their families on a day-to-day arrangement, it is neither logistically possible nor desirable, and no way is a notoriously laissez-faire style of government such as ours going to do so. They could however, quite easily enforce maintenance, but they will not do that either. In fact, be pleased for your DH, the new CSA charges will mean his XW will now have to pay every time she wants her case reassessed and she will have to pay tax on the maintenance, meaning less for the DC.

This is all talk, probably made as some sort of PR exercise designed to mollify lone parents in response to the outcry generated by introducing charges to use the CSA. Nothing more will be done, mark my words. You and your DH can rest easy.

sunshine I appreciate your comments

Insofar as the new csa system and charging is concerned - yes she would pay 'tax' on the maintenance, but not as much as DH would. So not so sure about 'resting easy'

But sunshine, how can it be accurate when there are so many families that no one has any idea what the NRP is paying towards? How can it be accurate.

Also, in today's climate many fathers (and mothers of course but that's not what we're discussing) are unemployed through no fault of their own. The comment 'princely sum of £5' tasted a a bit nasty to me. Imagine the shame if you were an NRP trying desparately to find a job and couldn't knowing you were only paying £5 towards your children. Of course there are heaps of men who wouldn't give a shit if this were the case, but again we're looking at a whole group and taking the piss out of poor (as in financially) men who aren't supporting their kids without a nod to the fact that each man will have his own story.

In addition to the conversation about tax. Why can't men pay maintenance before tax?! Because they want to screw as much out of us as they can. They are taxed on their income, then the RP is taxed on the maintenance, then the NRP in many cases has to foot the bill for half of e.g. school uniform etc out of their taxed income... paying VAT. It's a wonder there's any left!

maths My dp has asked the school on no less than 8 occassions to send seperate copies of letters/ invites/ reports etc to him and he has never received on of them. When he did go to the school to discuss a particular issue with the head of house, they called his ex wife as they felt she should be present, to which she kicked off epic style that he had dared to get involved in hid DD's education without her knowledge. And this for a man with 50/50 care. It's not always that easy to get involved.

Some non resident parent don't do obviously things because they want to feel upset and not take action. Why can't they go on a school website?My sons' school even gives the school lunches/menus for the week. You can find out when events are.

Unless there is a non molestation order in place you can attend a sports day (keep away from the oither parent if there is huge acrimony but do attend), attend concerts, parents' evenings; have the school send you notice of dates and when things take place. Skype the child. Be a friend with them on facebook etc etc. Luckily it is getting harder and harder for the parent with care to stop contact.

Accompany them on ths school ski trip as a parent going along if the school has parents on trips. Take a day off work to go on the school trip to the museum for the day helping the teachers.

So in allnew's husband's case are none of those things possible?

There is a known psychologic al issue with some (not all) absent parents where they want all - 100% contact/residence or nothing. They cannot cope with any compromise. Occasionally judges so people are awre of the issue allow judgments to be published showing the serial litigants who suffer from this. However in addition there are a vast number of loving parents of both sexes denied contact and huge numbers of mothers who want their other half to do 50/50 and not just 50/50 of fun but 50/50 opf night after night homework, washing, cleaning sheets and the like, collecting teenagers at 1am where the other half will not play that part.

"and huge numbers of mothers who want their other half to do 50/50 and not just 50/50 of fun but 50/50 opf night after night homework, washing, cleaning sheets and the like, collecting teenagers at 1am where the other half will not play that part."

And fathers, Xenia, fathers who would like mothers to do more than just 50/50 of fun...

"My sons' school even gives the school lunches/menus for the week" - Xenia I'm well aware that private schools such as that your children attend post all sorts of things on the website. DSSs state school does not

And actually ex is on the BOG for the school and has made absolutely sure that DH does not get to hear about all sorts of things

The child is not on facebook and does not use skype. His mother has been known to delete text messages from DH that she does not want DSS to see, even litted 'Good Luck' messages before certain events

"Accompany them on ths school ski trip" - DSS is not allowed to go on school trips

"Take a day off work to go on the school trip to the museum for the day helping the teachers" - funilly enough DH did exactly this last year for younger DSS. Ex was absolutely furious and went crazy with her own child about this

Similarly took out her anger on the chid when DH went to DSS's doctor to get an inhaler to keep in our house. Apparently it is not DH's concern to deal with his own child's asthma

"And fathers, Xenia, fathers who would like mothers to do more than just 50/50 of fun.."

Yes because there are a vast number of mothers who only do the fun stuff - the playing and the bedtime and storytime routines, while the fathers are doing the boring donkey-work of getting stuff ready for school, laundry, getting up in the night, taking time off work when the kids are sick... oh wait, there aren't, are there? Mothers mainly do that stuff. If only there were an equal number of men wringing their hands about their wives only ever doing the fun stuff and then boasting they are doing their fair share, we'd live in a parallel universe. Which of course, some of us do.

Bonsoir, 92% of lone parents are female. There aren't anywhere near as many single fathers wishing that the mothers would do more than just 50/50 of fun... Xenia is right on that one (there's a sentence I never thought I'd write. )

mary as far as I am aware, the 60% figure is as accurate as any government figure can be. Dont' forget that even though maintenance is no longer taken into account when applying for benefits (because it is considered an unreliable source of income), you are still asked how much you receive. Given that most but the richest single parents (which are a tiny number) will be somewhere in the great benefits/HMRC system, I'd say it's fairly accurate.

As for the £5 comment, I was not attempting to belittle anyone on benefits - a quick check of any of my other posts will show you where I sit on that. I was merely pointing out that someone paying £5 a month can be considered to be paying maintenance, which from their point of view on that income is just I agree, but from the child's point of view it is woefully inadequate. Meanwhile, even if the mother is herself on benefits, she will be spending proportionately more of 'her' money to look after that child, so she is in effect subsidising the benefit-dependent NRP in that case, despite having sole responsibility on a day-to-day basis in addition to all that.

allnew - I know. They are very difficult cases and when the mother causes so much trouble for the child sometimes the father has to step back to save that as he and courts put children's interests first but it's very very unfair. I think what you ned to play to is the future. My older children are all university+ stage. I will have them for 40 more years. Childhood is no thing for a sense. So if he can build up ways to ensure they remain integrated into his life as teenagers and older then that is for the best. Keeping up contact and ensuring there can be some kind of a relationship is essential though as few bond with someone at 18+,

Going on the school trip was a good idea. Do the children have email access at work as my children had from about age 7 and the brains to use it? I just don't see how hard it can be if a child wants contact (and most chidlren are not maleable idiots who do what their mother says - in fact if I said somethign mine would be as likely to have a different view than take mine) as they get older it can be stopped. Obviously when they are very little it is much harder.

There are also rights to see medical records I think but might not be worth bothering about that.

Play the long game and remember how bribable most teenagers are. They might well want the nice holiday abroad as they age whereas the wet weekend under canvas might not tempt them away from their mother. They may also be dradful in their teens and the moterh more than happy they stay at the other parent who can deal with the drug taking, drink and acne.

(I think in Anna's case her partner's ex wife in France with whom the older children live may well not do a lot of the basic stuff but that is the exception not the rule)

Xenia - let me correct you - my stepsons do not live with their mother - we have 50:50 residency (but, as you correctly surmise, we do 100% of the work and that leaves little time for 50% of the fun...).

If your DC goes to a normal school and they're not giving info on events out on the interweb, you could write to the governors and Head fo School to suggest that they do so.

It's very unusual now, for schools not to distribute a timetable of events and unless a NRP has something like a non-molestation order against them, a school will be happy to give him/ her a copy. Just e-mail the secretary every term and get one and you can always call on the Monday to confirm that dates haven't changed.

Yes Xenia - it is very difficult. Actually I recently started a thread on Mental Health re DSS1 because of the effect all this control has had on him over the years. We are looking into what sort of counselling would be most appropriate, and how this could practically be arranged. Re the long game - hopefully, yes. DSS's mother has already told him she has to live with her all through university so we'll see how that pans out

swallowed - no-one is attacking anyone. I have stated facts. Or are facts only facts when the object is a man? I don't need to do research on my own day to day life - I live it and see it. Is one only allowed to post on here about statisitcal evaluations? I wasn't aware of that. MN is full of people giving opinions based on their own experiences. But because my pesonal experience on this thread relates to negative behaviour by a woman, you are making every effort to devalue it. Why don't you focus you clearly passionate efforts elsewhere if my experience affends you so personally?

Are you saying I'm lying about the website? DH and I have both looked on there several times

"If your DC goes to a normal school and they're not giving info on events out on the interweb, you could write to the governors and Head fo School to suggest that they do so" - In theory a good idea, except ex is on the BOG

And she's the only person on the BOG is she?

also, can you not see the difference between facts about your life and facts about the lives of people in general?

The fact of my life, is that my xp doesn't pay a penny in maintenance. I don't therefore assume that all NRP's are deadbeat creeps, I look at the figures and find that only the majority are, not all.

So why not phone the secretary and get her to e-mail the events calendar?

But if you feel my posts are so irrelevant then why not just ignore them? You've devoted most of your attentions on here to me

I'm not peddling any myths though - as you correctly identified, I was giving an example based on my own individual experience. If you don't feel it's statistically relevant, ignore it

And really you do indeed have a choice to ingore me or not.

allnew, how old are your step children?
I think age makes a huge difference. Loads of teenagers want to do the opposite of what their parents say so you might find in a few years if the mother is saying you will stay at home and attend the university of XYZ Dump Hull Ltd or something then the child will be applying to Oxbridge or whatever.

There is a much bigger problem of non resident fathers not doing their bit than mothers thwarting contact but it gets very little publicity.

People who have been hurt by a divorce or are just awful people will try to hurt the other person in whatever ways they can and teh hard bit is woring around the psychology of the other person to ensure the parent builds up good relationships with the children going forwards. There is nothing to stop him standing for the Board of Governors is there for example? ALthough that would be a bit too confrontational. he could also move a lot nearer (if he currently lives far away)