Teachers to strike - 30 June

[meditrina]

breaking now on SKY

Overwhelming vote by 2 teachers' unions (92%)

Roxy,
but the point is there ISNT money for the private finance
that is why Broon fought SO hard to stop PFI ever appearing on the UK balance sheet.
Sooner or later a UK Govt is going to have to start defaulting on those debts - like when the QAH hospital in Portsmouth starts to cost £950 million rather than the £285 million it actually cost to build.

YES, MPs are effing out of order not to have been "all in it together" over their pensions. But they are slimy little thieves who do not deserve our vote.
And actually the 646 of them cost a pittance compared with the millions of extra public sector staff thet Broon created.

And before you ask - yes the current lot are dire too!

"Rob - the public sector workers who earn little more than minimum wage, who sweep your streets and clean up your elderly relatives, who serve your child school dinners etc, etc, are these people who are out of touch with working class life in 2011?"
How many jobs like that are actually done by the public sector in 2011? Most of them have been contracted out to agencies. Their workers will not be recieving final salary pensions like the teachers and other middle-class public sector workers are.

Rob - in my local authority all of those jobs are done by public sector workers.

I have no issue with your point with regard to public sector pensions being unsustainable - I'm a public sector worker as is my dh and we will bite the bullet, pay the extra and work longer. I'm fairly lucky because I have a decent pension earned in the private sector too (non contributory as it happens).

I do have a problem with you branding a whole group of people as smug, snobbish, not so bright and all the other pleasant comments you've spouted on this thread. It means you sound a bit of a twat TBH and detracts from any other argument you might present.

Some teachers in our school are striking and so only the 6th formers will be in. I will be in work and will have a day to write reports and mark exams, in btween teaching sixthformers. I wont be doing anyones work who is striking.

"I do have a problem with you branding a whole group of people as smug, snobbish, not so bright and all the other pleasant comments you've spouted on this thread. "
That is my experience of public sector workers. They simply do not realise that their purpose is to serve us, the public. They somehow think that they are in charge. They have not come to terms with the fact that it is 2011 and people are used to a far higher level of service than in the 1970s. If I tell a public sector person to do something, I expect it do be done, or their ass to be out the door. No quibbling. They are the servant.

I will dob my hat to my pupils in the morning then!

Or is it doff?

RobF- I think you're taking the "servant" bit rather too literally. Perhaps it's you who isn't very bright.

Rob - you've just confirmed the opinion I had formed of you.

You use the words smug, snobbish and not very bright to describe the public sector - I think you need to look to yourself TBH. Ask yourself why you might get shite service. It's not rocket science

I get shite service from the public sector for the same reason everyone else does. They know they get paid anyway, so they don't care.

I've worked in both the public (NHS, FE college) and private sectors (various blue chip companies) over the years and have come across good and bad management in both - you can't generalise.

In one blue chip company I worked for recently, the "bad" managers had made an art of always moving onwards and upwards before the shit hit the fan. They were great at making a lot of noise - not so good at actually delivering. Friends who still work for that company complain that there is so much latent talent going to waste and say that they hate every moment working there - but are stuck 'cos they are still on final salary pension schemes.

I think we can all see exactly why you get shite service in the public sector, Rob.

You could also say that they want to do it now because bankers (private sector) and government (public sector) have mismanaged our economy - as all the people on here who claim to know about such things keep saying.

Yes & No.

Yes, the recent crisis has created the political climate in which pensions can be tackled.

No, the pension issue has nothing to do with the banking crisis or recession. This has been a long time coming and the warning signs were there long LONG before Labour got into power. It's just that successive governments saw pension reform as a vote loser with no upside. So they've just brushed it under the carpet for someone else to deal with. Now the coalition have a situation where the majority of the public DO agree with reform so this enables them to tackle.

It's still a vote loser though. I can't see many people voting LD or Tory as a result of cutting teachers pensions but I can see many teachers voting for someone else instead for the same issue.

I think RobF might get poor service purely because of the way that he talks to people.

I really don't believe that you stop being working class the moment that you get a degree. I teach part time, am an examiner and work in a bar, am I working class when in the bar but middle class when in the classroom?

RobF you have a huge chip on your shoulder and are given to childish generalisations.

"It's still a vote loser though. I can't see many people voting LD or Tory as a result of cutting teachers pensions but I can see many teachers voting for someone else instead for the same issue."
Teachers overwhelmingly vote Labour anyway. It's not like the Tories will be losing very many votes out of it. The LibDems might lose a few.

If I tell a public sector person to do something, I expect it do be done, or their ass to be out the door. No quibbling. They are the servant.

Unbelievable. That 'public sector person' is NOT your servant.

Unless you are the fecking Queen. But I bet even then she would say 'please'.

So why are they called public servants? Who do they work for, if not the public?

Oh dear, Rob, you really are quite thick aren't you. As well as offensive and lacking in manners.

I hope you're not a father, passing on your vile opinions to your children. God help their teachers if they are treated as "servant" who have to do as they are told.

I work for the city council. They pay my wages.

You might call teachers public servants, but it isn't a common term. And it certainly doesn't mean they or any other public sector worker are at your personal beck and call, or that they should 'move their ass', as you so charmingly put it. Tosser.

DS is highly hacked off that his teacher is one of three in the school NOT striking as she is not in the Union which has voted for it. DS would like to complain...

Oh and RobF - as a public worker (nursing) if you spoke to me in the same tone you just used towards public workers on this thread I would soon tell you where to get off. I pay tax too you know, I work long hours and I have lost count of the unpaid hours I have put in over the years which I will never get back. I didn't notice anyone protesting about "unfairness" then or giving very much thanks in any other way. Suddenly people realise money is tight and I am getting a good pension and - oh wait a moment - howls of protest - well just feck off.

"GO TEACHERS" I say.

Two interesting articles about pensions and bonuses, here:

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/jun/22/pensions-reform-costs-hutton-warns-ministers

and here:
www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/jun/22/vince-cable-executive-pay

The first one says people might be forced out of local government pensions schemes altogether (which would mean they would all be on benefits instead). It also mentions that the Coalition would allow private companies to drop public sector pensions when they take over a state service in an out-sourcing arrangement - which I didn't know.

The second one is about pay and bonuses for top executives (presumably in the private sector) who, it appears, are paid 120 times more than their employees (up from 45 times in 1998). If you want to know why private sector employees don't get good pensions, this might be your answer.

Before anyone starts questioning the figures - I have no idea if they are correct - don't you think that the evidence is there for us to see? We are wasting our time squabbling about who is better off in the private and public sectors. We really should be concentrating on trying to make the greedy, selfish people at the top of these companies share some of their booty - at least with their own employees ...

"I work for the city council. They pay my wages. "

And who gives them the money to pay your wages?

" I pay tax too you know..."

Not really. You are paid out of other peoples taxes, then a bit gets taken off and taken back as tax. It'd be easier just to pay you less and save on the admin costs.

Fgs, tell me your job and I could turn it around in exactly the same way.

He won't tell you his job Feenie. He's a wind up merchant and best ignored TBH.

I'm a self-employed locksmith. If someone isn't happy with my work, they don't pay me, and I have to take them to court. It is rarely worth the hassle to do this.