Teachers to strike - 30 June

[meditrina]

breaking now on SKY

Overwhelming vote by 2 teachers' unions (92%)

Being rude about the teachers is not constructive.

The point is that nor is striking.
The cuts to pensions that hit the private sector five years ago are finally spreading across to the public sector.
Its not negotiable. There IS NO MONEY.

The UK is in more debt than Greece (just a lot of ours is hidden in long term PFI deals which will cost our children dearly)
If we want our children to have jobs houses and hopes, we have to stop putting off settling the deficit.
All else is selfish folly.

MynamesMikeIswimlikeafish, did you stand up for working-class people when we were having our wages and working conditions and pensions decimated by the Labour party? If not, why do you expect sympathy from us when the same is happening to you? Even after the reforms, you will still be better off than normal working folk.

Isitreally, I remember being gobsmackedonce that teachers were striking over a pay deal Can't remember the exact figures, but I remember thinking it was a fabulous deal, miles more than DH and I were getting and they were dissatified with it!!!

I remember commenting then that they were out of touch with reality.

Rob - I am a working class person. Why do you assume that public sector workers aren't working class? Why do you assume that public sector workers have always been public sector workers? I've worked in public, private and voluntary sectors.

It's not about a public sector/private sector divide.

And most importantly you assume I want your sympathy.

RobF! Thank God you're here! At last, rational, compassionate analysis, thoughtful clarity...I hope you have private health insurance (works so well in USA) or you may find yourself extolling your theory to an NHS heart surgeon, nurses, ambulance drivers, anaesthetist, etc. They may not be over sympathetic to your desire to race to the bottom with private sector pension schemes (don't mention the abject failure of all govts to regulate them) Tis idea of one group of workers has been sh*t on, so all workers should be, is bizarre. Govt should feel the heat to protect private sector workers too.

I don't think teachers are particularly bright. A lot of them just get into it for the money and holidays.

And I think most people named Rob are total dickheads. Oh but hang on, that's a ridiculous, childrish, idiotic, sweeping generalisation, isn't it?

Why are teachers not working class? Is there a cut off point in terms of how much you earn? Or do you stop being working class once you have A-levels or a BA or an MA for example?

Any job that requires a degree is a middle-class job IMO. Teachers and most other public sector workers are completely out of touch with the realities of working-class life in 2011.

isitreally It's been a long time since strikes worked. The threat of strikes is always a good way to keep talks going and negotiations worthwhile but actual strikes themselves are not generally successful. If it's disruptive the public lose sympathy after about the third one and all bargaining leverage disappears. If it's not disruptive then it won't work anyway.
And striking at the start of a Tory government with a General Election many years off will only give them the mandate to do as they plan to anyway which is to annihilate union power through harsh new rules designed to wipe out the right to strike anyway.

I agree.
Strikes work when the absence of manpower affects the profit of a private company - when the action affects the owners of the company personally.

I can't see how this one can work as public opinion is so much against the teachers - a strike will cause inconvenience and make parents cross and cause them to miss work. It makes employers cross because employees are child minding. It has minimal effect on the government.

I'd like a fairer system.

Well Mellow, you are getting your wish. For too long now, the public sector have had an unaffordable and overly generous pension scheme. And like most unaffordable things, it had to come to an end.

And here we are. Teacher's have to have their pensions cut because we cannot afford the public sector pensions, let alone somehow trying to boost private sector ones to a similar level.

So we are getting a fairer system. It's fairer towards the private sector who have had to pay taxes to cover a pension that they can only dream of. And since we're reducing the benefits and expecting more contributions, it's fairer in terms of affordability.

No Niceguy, the government wants to cut teachers' pensions because people are living longer - as you said yourself.

You could also say that they want to do it now because bankers (private sector) and government (public sector) have mismanaged our economy - as all the people on here who claim to know about such things keep saying.

This thread has been a huge surprise to me. I was totally unaware of the amount of animosity there is against public sector workers. These are the people who educate your kids and look after you when you are ill, build your roads, staff your libraries ... What is it that you want? Do you think that making their conditions worse will improve the services that you receive? You get what you pay for - every good capitalist knows that.

So why do the public sector people on here resent their taxes going into education, health service, etc? It would cost you all a lot more if it was all privatised. And public sector workers also pay tax, of course.

Sorry - 'So why do the private sector people on here resent ...' etc

If you were unaware of the animosity towards public sector workers you must have been living in a bubble for the last decade. I don't know anyone that hasn't had a run-in with a pig-ignorant public sector workers that appears to be totally unaware that they are there to serve us, not the other way round. A lot of their working practices and people skills hark back to the 1970s. Might have been acceptable now but standards in the private sector have improved no end, people have high expectations now and the public sector just aint cutting it.

Rob - the public sector workers who earn little more than minimum wage, who sweep your streets and clean up your elderly relatives, who serve your child school dinners etc, etc, are these people who are out of touch with working class life in 2011?

You have a very skewed view of your average public sector worker.

Most of the bin men I see wear Veiola shirts - they are not in the public sector
the bus drivers work for First Bus - nor are they
the care home workers work for Southern Cross
and why is this?
Because Public Sector pensions are so cripplingly expensive that the private sector can undercut every time.

The Public Sector has NO RIGHT to maintain Unaffordable Employment and Pension rights.
We MUST STOP STEALING FROM OUR CHILDREN BY RUNNING UP A DEFICIT

There are plenty of private sector workers working for min wage as carers, cleaners and bin men, with NO pension provision whatsoever.

I have no issue with the TPS in isolation. I have an issue with final salary schemes which I believe to be completely ill-thought out and unsustainable and this is based my experience of managing pensions for private sector firms. I agree that the public sector have previously seen the pension as a perk, however it has been misused with pay increases articially given in the final year to increase the pension and I know this has happened for head masters as my father was asked to vote for one as a governor. Public sector schemes should be reviewed in line with any other pension scheme. The Govt have made a fatal mistake in not dropping the MPs first. The pay cap for salary should be limited to the average public sector salary and employees should have the option of DC contributions for anything above this which would limit the liability for future generations. As mentioned when the 1.8m lifetime limit was introduced the main people affected were top civil servants, judges and MPs. They should not be allowed to keep this benefit when many are in the top 10% of earners. This would keep contributions down for the lower paid and career average would actually favour them.

However, I do not agree with the strike because I think it will alienate the Public who will just think all pensions are gold-plated which they are not and Lord Hutton made a point of this. The unions should be coming up with solutions that will keep pensions in existence for future generations but not leave our children with an unlimited liability. In 2034 when my children will be having children of their own, there will be considerably less people in the working population. Based on the research I have been doing in my job, I am worred that future generations are not been considered by the unions.

RobF- I'm amazed you can work at all with that massive chip on your shoulder.

We'll be camping locally as well - just trying to find recommendations for good sites ATM.

:)

Interesting post, Bitsy. I worry about future generations too, and think it is vital that we get a fairer system in place now.

Nonsense. Do check your facts!

Of course there is money! Not for the likes of us. Just bankers and the like. Millions paid to swell the coffers of private finance.

Well said. Must be a load of Mail readers logging on today. Frightening what they believe, isn't it!

And MPs. I haven't heard about their pensions being cut. Or their allowances.

NiceGuy - yes - about fairness. When my DC used to bleat, like the teachers (the DC don't now) 'its not fair!!!' I would tell them, 'No, its 'not fair' aren't you lucky? If life were 'fair', YOU would be living in a dustbowl in Africa - THAT would be fair' Now the DC understand that we are immensely privileged to have led the lives we have so far - wish some of these teachers could grasp that