Teachers to strike - 30 June

[meditrina]

breaking now on SKY

Overwhelming vote by 2 teachers' unions (92%)

Funds itself, sorry

What striking will do, I hope, is show the government the strength of feeling that exists against the particular measures they are proposing, and send them back to the drawing board.
I think it's obvious that the government knows this is an unpopular move for the teachers but in the overall context of balancing the books, we have little choice.

Going back to the drawing board? What you mean is "cut someone else's pension instead of ours". Like I said earlier. Who do you suggest? Firefighters? Army? Nurses? Who's pension would you like to see cut so that teachers can enjoy theirs? I think we all agree that doing nothing is not a choice. And most rational people also understand the odd nip & tuck on taxation won't solve our problem either.

Lastly, I think the days of striking gets you want you want has passed. Nowadays I think employers and govt realise that giving into one group just encourages more. Just like I never give into a toddler tantrum because it encourages more in the future.

Funds itself in what respect exactly, given that it's an unfunded scheme?

The actuarial professional have made a comment that career average schemes could be better for lower-paid public sector workers.

www.actuaries.org.uk/news/press-releases/articles/actuaries-career-average-pensions-could-benefit-lower-paid-public-secto

This is because if you are not likely to progress further in your career and get promotion, increases linked to inflation via career average schemes could be better than below inflation pay increases.

Therefore this whole type of scheme is likely to be more detrimental for the higher earners.

It's an unfunded scheme, there are no assets backing it, it doesn't build up a pot or fund from the contributions. Current pensions in payment are paid partly by teachers contributions and any shortfall is paid directly from taxation.

The statement that it is self funding is completely meaningless in the context of an unfunded scheme.

I am a HCP who will be caught in the crossfire of raised pension age, increased pension contributions and so forth. Along with my pay freeze.

I think the government have gone about this, as ever, in a completely cack-handed way.

I would be far more amenable to their arguments if they applied their fiscal austerity more fairly. Earlier on I made the point that if we could actually see real, life evidence of those who got us into this mess (and it wasn't just 'us'! I've never lived beyond my means, I've never accepted an imprudent loan, I've never paid interest on a credit card) were in some way, shape or form being punished (Fred the Shred anyone? Bankers in publicly owned banks getting even bigger bonuses..?) we might be persuaded.

If we could see some fairness in student fees (free in Scotland so the English taxpayer pays), prescription charges, means testing winter fuel allowances and free bus passes for the OAPS etc; if we hadn't just been faced with the spectacle of many MPs claiming more in expenses than many of us get paid in a year- oh, I could go on..

And finally, well, the fact is everyone's remuneration comes as a package. Everything has 'a price'. For many public sector workers, the trade off for lower pay than they might have received in the state sector was better T&C, better job security. If those young things in the private companies I recall from when I was a newly qualified earning nothing in London had spend their extra earnings on pension plans and investments instead of better wine, newer cars and more Euro-breaks their pensions might look healthier. It seriously pees me off that now the Good Times have stopped rolling suddenly us public sector employees are being made out to be the bogeyman for wanting to hang onto our pension rights as agreed for many of us a good 25 years ago.

So all this 'all in it together' stuff doesn't wash. No one was lamenting our rubbish (NHS) wages 25 years ago so get your mitts off the trade off now.

My DH is a private sector worker and he will probably have to work till 60+, I am a childminder so am self employed which means I DO NOT get an option to pay into a pension so i will have to work till I am 68 too!!!!

I think if the teachers strike again after 30th June they will lose sympathy, especially with parents having to pay childminders when they are struggling anyway, I know I get extra pay but I'd rather the children be in school!

Wish the school would hurry up and decide whats happening. Things need to be rearranged and carers booked. But so far they wont tell us parents.

Niceguy, no! I certainly don't want to cut someone else's pension instead of mine (where did you get that idea?).

I'd like a fairer system. I agree that there is a problem (or will be) with people living longer; I'm OK about working longer (but don't want to sit on jobs that could be done by younger people) and I'm OK about a reduced pension.

But I think that these measures should be applied across the board - public and private sector. If everyone paid, individuals would hardly feel the pain, and we really would be in it together. And in case anyone thinks I want other people to suffer just because teachers are - no, I don't. I just want people to feel that they are being treated fairly, because maybe that would stop us all getting at each other. And maybe if some of the people who actually have some power in this situation found themselves affected too, they would very soon stop it happening again ...

We need to think of us all as being part of the incredibly beautiful tapistry of life - equally important, equally valued.

And just because the system is complicated doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed - quite the opposite.

'But I think that these measures should be applied across the board - public and private sector. '

What makes you think that they're not! There is no way I will be afford to retire on my pension until I'm in my late sixties. Probably seventies.

I worked for actuaries for fifteen years and there was never a time when they weren't warning about the demographic time-bomb and pensions. The rest of us were put onto money purchase (defined contribution) pensions a decade back when teachers and other public workers were still getting final salary. So forgive us if we're not altogether sympathetic now.

The last government should have altered retirement ages years back.

Private sector workers are totally feeling the pain. I currently pay 8% my employers pay 8% and my pension is projected to be a quarter of my current salary. To get half, I would have to pay 24%, and that's not guaranteed, it could be wiped out in a Market crash. 3/4 of private sector workers don't even have that, and those that do, the average employer contribution is 6%.

Now tell me why I should pay more in taxes to cover public sector pensions?

It's not just about comparing the size of private sector vs public sector contributions though. It's what you get at the end that's important, and there are no guarantees for private sector workers.

I would pay through the nose for such guarantees.

I've not had my bin collected for 6 weeks because of people striking to protect their pensions.
I do not have a pension.
I do have piles of rubbish
and stuff all sympathy for people who are looking after themselves at the expense of the rest of us and their own children.

The pensions crisis is NOTHING to do with the financial crisis - it predates it by at least 8 years. The last government were lying cowards to ignore it.

I've got no sympathy whatsoever for any public sector people that strike, they've lived high on the hog for the past 14 years while Labour waged war on the private sector. Most public sector types cheered it on, smug in the knowledge that Labour would never let it affect them, which they didn't. Of course they didn't think what would happen if the Tories got back in, because they simply aren't very bright, otherwise they'd get proper jobs.

RobF - what an offensive ignorant post. I take it you went to school? Maybe even have school-aged children? Teachers - not very bright and not doing a proper job?

Rob's post may be offensive but it is not ignorant.
His point about the fact that Public Sector pensions carried on as if nothing was wrong while private sector pensions got trashed is absolutely correct.
Broon was a deluded / lying coward and should have dealt with this issue in 2003.
It is now being done by a Government who also believe in reducing public spending so its a perfect storm.
With the debt crisis piled on top.

"Of course they didn't think what would happen if the Tories got back in, because they simply aren't very bright, otherwise they'd get proper jobs"

Not ignorant? TalkinPeace - do you also think that teachers (and nurses, and TAs and GPs) are "not very bright" and "should get proper jobs" then? That's the ignorant bit.

They can't be that bright if they genuinely didn't think that the good times under Labour would continue forever. Sooner or later someone had to bring the public sector back to reality.

I don't think teachers are particularly bright. A lot of them just get into it for the money and holidays. The amount of NEETs we currently have should give you some idea of the quality of teachers, not that it is entirely their fault of course.

Rob - you really do have a thing about public sector workers don't you? We were snobbish further on down the thread and now smug and not very bright. Insulting a whole group of people doesn't add weight to your argument.