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Little girl with cerebral palsy to be deported

102 replies

AKissIsNotAContract · 18/05/2011 10:50

www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/9032978.Deporting_little_girl_will_kill_her__family_say/?ref=mm

Such a sad story, hopefully with enough exposure she will be able to stay.

OP posts:
fastedwina · 19/05/2011 19:40

ok, so what is your view on helping others like I mentioned? The girl who had her ears and nose cut off in Afghanistan. Kids who have been flown in to help them as they were in dire straights and needed specialist help. I take it you think they shouldn't have been helped and shown compassion. what about foreign aid etc?

madwomanintheattic · 19/05/2011 19:41

this is a worldwide issue and also affects uk families with disabled children who want to emigrate elsewhere.

initially i thought this thread was about the barlagne family who are facing deportation from canada who also have a daughter with cerebral palsy. or the chapmans whose daughter has angelman's syndrome, who were refused entry.

we were forced to 'prove' that our dd with cp would not be a burden on the state when we moved to canada.

global migration for anyone with a disability is nigh on impossible. you are looked upon as a budgetary debt in isolation. there is no humanity in the process. this is one of thousands of cases. not just to get into the uk, but to get into any country with immigration regulations.

awful. awful.

TheHumanCatapult · 19/05/2011 19:54

ILovetiffinay

no your right things are tough and with a child with sn myself and im in a wheelchair so affected by it all .But I can see how wrong it would be in this case to send a child back to DIE .

And yup madwoman ,We can never emigrate I had a job offer abroad including house before my accident but could not get the visa due to ds having sn .Even though would had private medical cover etc and no one is sure what level of support ds needs as adult maybe very little

NettyJ · 20/05/2011 09:59

I thought in order to attempt to dispel some concerns that Jo and Mo are anything other than genuine in their attempts to keep Rania in this country and formally adopt her, it may help to give you some more background facts. I have already cleared this with Jo and much of what I am about to say is taken as direct quotes from her.

Rania was born at 26 weeks gestation and was put outside, in the Algerian heat, on a table to die. 6 hours later, it was noticed that she was still making attempts to breathe. She was brought back inside the hospital, put on a ventilator in a crib with another baby.

When Rania was eventually discharged from hospital, her birth mother was given the advice to "keep her like a baby" by the doctors. Not knowing any different, she followed their advice. As Rania grew older, she gave her bits of bread to eat, but she was still surviving on just cows milk - 6 to 8 bottles per day, with 4 spoonfuls of sugar added to it (no teeth bruising in Algeria, until they are years old!). Rania slept a lot...

When Rania arrived in this country, she weighed 8kg and was wearing size 6-12 month baby clothes. She had pressure sores on her hips, bottom and her spine where her bones stuck out. She had a deformed rib cage, caused by being carried badly and scoliosis of the spine which was cast with the curve in plaster of paris.

Rania initially came over on a visitor visa for 6 months, this was after discussions with the Home Office on whether they wanted her on a medical or visitor visa. Even though the reason she was coming here was never for medical treatments.

Jo and Mo were conscious of the fact that they did not want to bring in a sick child to the country, or that they wanted to end up with large medical bills - which is exactly what has happened. So they obtained medical reports which stated that "Rania had a weak right arm and leg and a squint in one eye - otherwise healthy". She came for conductive education and was assessed by the doctors there for suitability.

For the first year that Rania was here, she was not eligible for free NHS treatment. Every test and treatment that had by now become apparent that she needed, was paid for by Jo and Moussa. They have never received DLA or Carer's Allowance for Rania.

The adoption process alone will cost them £10,000 - £20,000. The immigration process bills are similar, as are her medical bills.

Since Rania has been here, Jo and Mo were successful in their application to get her initial 6 month visa extended on compassionate grounds for medical assessments and treatments. The Home Office then refused their next attempt and they appealed the decision. The appeal was turned down by the judge who ruled that there was no case for appeal, as the Home Office decision was illegal. But here they are, fighting again....

As far as the adoption is concerned, the reason why Rania has not been adopted yet, is simply because she has to have lived her for 3 years to be eligible. You can apply to the court for permission to apply early however you cannot pursue adoption for a child already living in this country where there are clear immigration benefits. Its a catch 22 situation: You cannot adopt without a shift from the Home Office, but you cannot clear the Home Office without adoption. Jo and Moussa applied to the Local Authority to clear themselves as adopters in an attempt to speed things up. But the Local Authority will not get involved as there are no welfare concerns for Rania - she is well cared for and thriving. They will however support Jo and Moussa when the time comes.

I really hope that by posting this, it helps to clarify the situation and assures you all that Jo and Moussa are nothing other than genuine in their concerns and intentions for Rania. If you have any other queries or concerns, I'll try my best to answer them, but I hope you will now all lend your support to this lovely family. Thank you for reading.

SardineQueen · 20/05/2011 10:17

The lack of compassion on this thread is astounding and frankly really upsetting.

British women saying that a 5yo should be removed from her home, and school, and the people she sees as her parents, and sent away to probable death.

What a bunch of charmers you are. I suppose that now we have a tory government people are feeling free to air these sorts of ideas. How refreshing! FFS x 1000.

Dropdeadfred · 20/05/2011 10:41

sardinequeen - i havent said that at all, not have most people. But were do you draw the line? should we go out to algeria and places like that and invite all the sick and dying children over here for nhs treatment to save their lives? what about all the starving children in africa etc?
it would be great to help every child that needed medical help, but impossible

perhaps trying to educate people in the countries that still view epilepsy as 'posession' should be our first call rather than allowing health tourism as a rule

Dropdeadfred · 20/05/2011 10:46

and i'm 99% sure (having worked for the HO) that this child will not be returned, because her parents broke the rules and got her in the country..for whatever reason but it wasnt for a holiday...others who try and do things right will be denied entry

HRHShoesytwoesy · 20/05/2011 10:49

I think the op should realise this is a discussion forum not a petition forum, people will ask questions and not always agree.
I hope the child stays, but it does concern me that children and adults can come and use up our scares resources, it is ok to say this country should be better than this but it isn't, cuts are being made to ss budgets and allowances for disabled people, it is hard enough to get support now, but if this case sets a precedent it will be worse.
this child will need lifetime care, her "parents" might not need it now as she is very young, but as she gets older they will, this might be one child now, but how many more will follow. it is a question that does have to be asked.
nothing to do with lacking compassion, just being realistic.

GypsyMoth · 20/05/2011 10:52

there are actually some areas which are confusing which i thought were on this thread ,but must be on the other one....an update from the op

wannaBe · 20/05/2011 10:56

Nobody has said that they want this child to die. A lot of people have in fact acknowledged that given this is now in the public domain she will almost certainly be allowed to stay.

But the truth is that people prefer to take on a cause, this one poor innocent child, and express their indignance at her treatment when actually there is a far bigger picture of, firstly those people who use this country for its health service, and who abuse the system which only has a finite amount of resources, and secondly of the issues in the countries where these people come from that lead them here in the first place.

I have suggested numerous times that people might want to campaign for better availability of treatments in other countries, and for changes in attitudes, but no-one, not one person that is on their high-horse over this has even acknowledged that might be a good idea.

Far better to get indignant at the treatment at one and shout down anyone who dares see this as a far wider issue. Hmm

GypsyMoth · 20/05/2011 11:02

oh actually the update is above by netty

she says rania was NEVER coming over for medical treatment.....they must have known she would need someConfused

bemybebe · 20/05/2011 11:28

Why don't they apply for the relevant visa to receive medical treatment and fund the treatment itself with funds raised from high-profile campaign? Maybe there are charities that would be sympathetic to fund some treatments.

You are trying to run a petition to collect signatures to in effect overturn a proper legal process, which is there to protect the interests of the country as a whole. I doubt anybody can argue that if this little girl from Algeria receives special treatments, why cannot a special boy from Vietman or special person from Brazil. Where does it stop and can it once the precedent is set...

I am personally happy to make a donation towards the medical expenses btw as probably will some on this tread and in the wider world, but I am not happy to support action that essentially weakens the immigration process.

raniamuststay · 20/05/2011 11:29

the trouble is, wannabe, that no matter how much I agree with you about campaigning for better treatment in other countries, it's going to be a bit (a lot) too late for Rania, isn't it

Rania is my priority right now - a little five year old girl who needs to stay with the people who know how to care for her, and do so, and the medical care she needs to stay alive

Changing attitudes takes a long time. Even providing resources in countries like Algeria is no easy task. It might seem easy - just raise some money and take it/send it over there but it is not. Algeria is still a very closed country and it's just not that simple. I am quite happy to also work in the longer term towards projects such as those but right now I'm going to keep on asking everyone to think about Rania

There is a paper petition now which can be downloaded (you need to register with scribd I think for it to download) and passed around friends and colleagues. If people could keep posting the links on their facebook/twitter feeds as well, that would be fantastic

and just one more comment about some people, in rl as well as on here, who think that this is going to lead to a flood of people adopting severely ill children from abroad. I think it is a fantastic idea. I would love to see how many people would really sign up for it. Give up your job, become a full time carer, get 3, maybe 4 hours unbroken sleep for the next 6-8 years or so, spend large amounts of your time sleeping in a put up bed next to a very sickly child in intensive care, get on first name terms with all the ambulance drivers in the area (hey there are always the perks like a christmas card from your favourite paramedic), learn and then put into practice child resuscitation, and through it all remember that your child has a life limiting condition so all that love and energy you pour into that child is going to end in heartbreak before they reach adulthood. Good luck finding the people to volunteer for that! Imo Jo and Moussa are very very rare individuals - I've never met anyone else who would do that, and you know, if there are maybe 10 people in the country who are willing to do that, I say good on them!

HRHShoesytwoesy · 20/05/2011 11:33

raniamuststay a lot of do care for severely disabled children, I do. perhaps that is why we know how stretched things are already. please don't assume that we don't know anything about it. that is why I know this child will need a lot of help in the future. wanabe was right imo when she said fund raising for to support this child would be a better idea,

GypsyMoth · 20/05/2011 11:34

if she does get sent back,will Moussa go with her? take her on the plane etc,or remain here...how will it work?

raniamuststay · 20/05/2011 11:45

hrhshoesytwoesy, I'm not saying that people don't care for severely disabled children. I know loads of people on here have a very personal and indepth understanding of the needs of children with severe disabilities. They are not the ones I'm talking about really, I don't imagine.

A lot of people, and I've seen the comments on here and heard them in rl, seem to think there will be a flood of people queuing up to adopt these children without thinking about what it actually means. I'm sure you will know, if you care for a severely disabled child yourself, that there is a big difference between providing a few hours care and the absolute daily grind of 24 hour care for years and years and years and the way it is utterly life transforming - not just the physical care but the emotional side of it as well. It's not just a question of 'hey, I'll look after that child I heard about somewhere - why not - after all I'll just have loads of money and resources thrown at me'. It's 'Am I willing to utterly transform my entire life'.

I'm not just talking about people on here now or even just about Rania, but honestly when I speak to some people I just think they have literally no idea what looking after a child with severe disabilities involves, let alone stop to think for a second how many people really choose to step forward and adopt a child knowing full well the range of disabilities and the level of care that child needs. It takes a very very special person to do that - and good on them each and every one of them!

coming back to the idea of fundraising, I know Rania's mum set up a fund a while ago to try to build a little sensory garden for Rania so I'll ask her if she plans a wider fundraising appeal as well and get back to you. I'm not an official spokesperson or anything - just a friend - so I don't know more than that right now. It's wonderful that anyone would donate time, energy or money to helping Rania - I know all of those who know her and her family are amazingly grateful for the support people have offered

HRHShoesytwoesy · 20/05/2011 11:56

but as you your self have pointed out caring for a severely disabeld child is bloody hard work, so at some thime this family will need help, respite and things like that, but as I have pointed out there is already a shortage of these things, families are being destroyed due to lack of help from SS, so is it right to increase this burden?
and yes I do believe that this will set a president, and for each child/adult that comes her, a family already of breaking point will suffer, and that could mean death for them(as we have seen countless horror stories in the news of families driven to this, I am not being dramatic)

wannaBe · 20/05/2011 12:06

raniamuststay I can see where your priorities lie as you are obviously personally involved in this and as such of course you would be thinking purely of this one child. But I am referring to the many others on this thread who are not personally connected with this case.

Fwiw I don't think this is going to cause an influx of children being sent here to be adopted, however one could not guarantee that it wouldn't increase the amount of people entering the UK illegally in the hopes of gaining similar status for their children and then even themselves. After all had this little girl's parents come over with her would people be any less outraged at the fact they were being deported?

LaurieFairyCake · 20/05/2011 12:10

I think it's pretty clear that we don't draw 'the line' at sending a 5 year to her death.

It's that fucking simple.

HazedandConfused · 20/05/2011 12:36

OK I have to post that I disagree absolutely with wannabe and Dropdead.

There is a big difference, both practically and morally, between "letting everyone disabled in" to the country, and deciding not to deport one child (who incidentally is not only already here, but already settled and living effectively as a British person, with a family who are British citizens, attending school etc).

Nobody has actually suggested throwing open our borders to anyone who wants to come in, and I don't think anyone would claim that was a good idea. But that is not what is being discussed here!

This case is not about "letting people in" but about whether to throw out one specific person child. And nobody has claimed either, that we should not deport anybody. They have only asked that we do not deport this particular child, Rania. All they are asking is for Rania's case to be assessed, and for a fair and humane judgement to be made on her case.

Surely, for people who are already in the country - and especially for children or other vulnerable people, who would be at risk in their country of origin - the only moral and humane thing for us to do as a nation is to assess each individual case on its own merits. This does not then mean every other disabled person (whose situation would not be identical anyway) would be allowed to stay, and it certainly does not mean "inviting in" other people.

Also, there is surely a difference between not taking every possible action that might help some people (like not "inviting in" all disabled people), and actively doing something that will cause at the absolute least, serious distress and illness, if not death, to a specific, known individual (in this case, a child, who is already settled in our country and would surely leave a gap in the lives of her family, friends and schoolmates too if forced to leave).

And no, I don't know Rania or her family in the slightest, in case you're wondering Grin But I just don't see how deporting her could possibly be the right thing to do in this case.

Dropdeadfred · 20/05/2011 12:39

Hazed - sorry , i did not make it clear. I on a personal level DO NOT think the child should be removed, but as an ex-HO employee I do know just how many people do bring in sick relatives (not just children - sometimes ederly parents etc) in order to not only obtain free medical treatment (and who could blame them really if it is seemingly on offer?) but often leading to permanent residency for them too

I think now she is here she should stay and i'm sure she will. But i think the laws need tightening up to prevent this sort of thing happening again

wannaBe · 20/05/2011 13:10

"Surely, for people who are already in the country - and especially for children or other vulnerable people, who would be at risk in their country of origin

  • the only moral and humane thing for us to do as a nation is to assess each individual case on its own merits." and where does it state that this individual case has not been assessed on its own merrits?

Let's take the emotive side out of the equasion here - a child with severe and complex medical needs is brought here on a six month visitors visa, a=the family n=knew she had complex medical needs, there's no way they didn't know - child born at 26 weeks, left to die for hours, then fed only on milk for the first couple of years, with deformaties, unable to walk or see, I'd concede that her algerian family might be uneducated enough not to realise but not her British family. That in itself might seem as if they brought her over deliberatly knowing that were the complexities of her condition to be revealed there was every chance she wouldn't have been allowed in in the first place.

Now, I have at no point said this child should be deported or left to die. I have said that a line needs to be drawn somewhere. Just because a child with severe medical needs has been brought here and is now living here, doesn't mean that should be permitted, especially given the deception under which she was brought here in the first place.

I am sure that her family had the best intentions when bringing her here, however from a legal point of view they have deceived the system in order to achieve their end result..

NettyJ · 20/05/2011 14:33

"...I'd concede that her algerian family might be uneducated enough not to realise but not her British family. That in itself might seem as if they brought her over deliberatly knowing that were the complexities of her condition to be revealed there was every chance she wouldn't have been allowed in in the first place...."

As I said previously, she was assessed by medics before she came here. She was assessed as having "weakness in her right arm and leg, a squint in one eye and was otherwise healthy". The HO were also involved before she came here and were satisfied enough to grant her a visitors visa not a medical visa.

Everything else became apparent, including her issues with her eyesight when tests were carried out when she came in to this country, not before.

Caring for a child with disabilities as "mild" as was first expected with Rania, is a far cry from caring for a child with Rania's extent of issues now. Where is the deception here?

diddl · 20/05/2011 14:37

"Rania initially came over on a visitor visa for 6 months, this was after discussions with the Home Office on whether they wanted her on a medical or visitor visa. "

If someone is coming to visit family, is it usual for a medical visa to be discussed?

RobF · 20/05/2011 14:42

Why is she here, and not, say, France, which has colonial connections with Algeria?