Killer father felt left out after his baby girl arrived.

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Mark Bruton Young smothered his six month-old daughter, having researched the ways he could get rid of her, and whilst apparently suffering post natal depression.

He was also angry with his wife and wished they could go back to being a couple.

Is it post natal depression or sociopathy?

Spero, I think that you are very brave to admit to such feelings.

I have been through some serious shit in my life and in all honesty, yup, I thought about killing myself (and even the person who was responsible). I also had PND.

Seriously, I don't judge this man (or any other) on his ability to be photogenic. I don't know why he was acquitted (although it appears that the lack of a categorical post mortem result played a large part).

I'm sorry, but no matter what stress they were under as a family, that little child did nothing to even deserve those thoughts (and I will accept that he did not action them - albeit with a degree of scepticism).

There just appears to be something wrong here. It does not feel right, in much the same way that the Barry George case never felt right, or the Rachel Nickell case.

And yes, those are my feelings. Nothing more than that. I am not a juror, just a mother of two very annoying loved dc.

My faith in Jury trials is not so great that this verdict doesn't leave me deeply uneasy. He hated his baby, he researched ways of killing her without leaving a trace and of all the babies in the country his dies and no cause of death is found.

Coincidence? Maybe. I can see that it doesn't constitute proof, but I really fear for any other children this couple may have.

MrsDistinctly - thank you for calling me 'brave' but it is a shame that it considered an act of bravery to be honest about what we think and feel. Maybe if such honesty can become more mainstream we will have less of these awful cases where people feel so trapped and ashamed by their thoughts that they dont seek help when they need it.

I completely agree, of course that poor baby did nothing to deserve ANY horrible thoughts or actions directed at her, no child ever does or ever will.

But if someone is in the grip of extreme mental stress or mental illness they don't necessarily act rationally or pleasantly and I think we have to be very careful not to damn people as if they were wittingly and conciously chosing to be evil.

I think very few people do 'evil' in the full knowledge that they are being 'evil' - the only examples I can think of are full blown psychopaths who would not appear to have developed the necessary parts of the brain that allow them to feel empathy or sorrow for another's pain. And then its a whole interesting question about whether or not their acts can be their 'fault'.

Barbarianmum - of course you are right to not placed absolute faith all the time in juries. Nothing ever run by humans can ever be infalliable. Mistakes have been made in jury trials, some quite horrible mistakes (Guildford 4 et al)
BUT if you were arrested tomorrow and accused of killing your child would you like to be tried and convicted by
a) a group of anonymous internet posters who had read about you in the tabloids and seen some not very attractive photos of you OR
b) a jury following a full criminal trial.

Spero - the latter of course. But once in a great while a case will come to trial where the verdict doesn't sit right with me -this is the 3rd such I can think of. Not suggesting that justice is administered according to my gut, of course.

Not sure what the pics have to do with anything. He may not be Robert De Niro but he just looked ordinary to me.

re pics - there have been quite a lot of negative comments on this thread about the photo where he was resting his head on his wife's shoulder and lots of interpretation of this photo and what it said about their characters and the state of their relationship, which I think was just ridiculous.

The parallels with what was done to Joanna Yeates landlord are obvious. You simply can't make such a serious judgment about someone because you don't like the way they look in a photo.

Im more judging him on his internet search history than his looks TBH.

Fine to judge him but to say that the jury must have got it wrong because they disagree with you? that's my worry here.

Spero - be worried and disturbed all you like about the comments on this thread. I'm worried and disturbed that this guy got off scott free. I'm not convinced of his innocence - at all.

It's one thing to hate and think about murdering your baby because you want all your wife's attention, but to actually plan it for weeks and then carry out the deed is another - a big difference! Normal people can have murderous but VERY few actually kill.

The jury obviously took pity on him. Sociopaths very often evoke pity.

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I can't believe for a single second the jury took 'pity' on him. The Jury is made up of 12 people representing society. I can't find a single person on this thread who 'pities' him.

The jury agreed there was a reasonable doubt that the prosecution case that he plotted and then killed his baby was just not true. So he was acquitted of murder.

You think he is murderer. Fair enough. But do you accept that you have come to this conclusion based on a)your understandable revulsion that any father could even contemplate killing his child b)what you have read in some newspapers.

And if you accept the above, do you agree that you know an awful lot less than the jury did?

"The jury agreed there was a reasonable doubt that the prosecution case that he plotted and then killed his baby was just not true."

The police found hundreds of entries on three of his work computers.

The jury took 18 hours to deliberate which suggests to me that they weren't sure what to think.

I was shocked he was found not guilty tbh as there seemed to be a lot of evidence against him although I guess much of it on it's own wouldn't have been enough to even charge him with, let alone build a case against him.

I do not understand how either of the parents behaviour outside the court- the smiles etc as their child is still dead. The husband had researched some quite frankly horrible, evil ways to kill the baby and get away with it. That alone would be enough to never want to breathe the same air as him ever again, let alone embrace him. Having said that, I'm not in their shoes so maybe they haven't behaved oddly.

And I still think him having PND is a load of cobblers.

We will have to agree to disagree. If you based your views about me and what I am capable of on my internet searches alone, I don't think that would be a remotely fair or reasonable assessment of me.

Saffy - yes, I also thought the parents big smiles outside the court was bizarre and inapproprate.

Spero - but you're not a killer.

Er, and according to the law of this country, neither is he.

But smiling outside court? What a bastard! lets do a whip round and pay someone to take him out. Justice needs to be done.

Well yes, he actually killed his baby - he got aquitted though.

Are you OK with the big smiles of relief outside court?

The baby died. As I understand there is NO PROOF that he killed the baby. The post morten was inconclusive. It could have been SID.

I am neither 'okay' nor 'not okay' with people smiling in relief if they have not been convicted of murder. I have no idea what that must feel like and I am not aware there is any established etiquette guide to 'what do you do outside court when acquitted of murder'.

Or maybe I am wrong about that. Kate McCann was certainly pilloried for not displaying sufficient outward grief when her daughter was abducted. Maybe I am missing a trick and there are loads of relevant books about how you should display your feelings in such a situation. Perhaps the only acceptable emotion ever is wailing and rending of garments.

Or, just a thought, maybe we are all different? Maybe some of us smile at inappropriate times or don't want the world to know what kind of pain we are in?

But if that ever happens to me and I am smiling outside court I would be pretty pissed off to think a group of anonymous posters decided that was enough to damn me as a murderer.

Spero - I don't understand why you're identifying so much with this guy and so fixated on defending him.

He didn't present as someone with severe PND.

Women in the thoes of a post-partum psychotic episode who might kill their babies are basically out their minds. This guy's complaint was that he felt 'left out', and then he went on to research how to kill a baby.

He was aquitted in the end - the jury took a long time trying to make a decision on it - I can't imagine there was enough proof anyway to send him down.

if DP had made internet searches like that, whether he was guilty of murder or not, that would be it. over. no questions. out. i personally think it was too calculated, too thought out - not just different ways of commiting murder, but how to do it and get away with it. even if it was a psychotic episode, i could never trust him, never look at him again, and it would always be in the back of my mind '...what if it was him?' that's the part i can't get my head around.

Sigh. I am not 'identifying' with anyone.

I am simply pointing out it is the height of fuckwittery to claim that you 'just know' the jury got it wrong because oooo! its how you feel! or look at his photos! My god he's smiling!

No - it's not about 'knowing' he did it or getting a 'feeling.'

It's not fuckwittery - this is a guy who hated his baby and extensively researched HOW to kill a baby shortly before she died.

I think he done it!

And the big smiles outside court didn't look good. Their baby had died.

and yes, if I'd found a partner of mine looking at ways to kill a baby - he'd be out the fucking door - no sweat! Too much of a liablity.

I don't think Spero is 'identifying' with this guy so much as defending the rule of law. The rule of law is certainly not perfect (and I too have qualms about this verdict) but thus far no-one has come up with anything fairer or better.

As for the guy and his wife smiling, well that says nothing about guilt. Both an innocent and a guilty person would be relieved at a 'not guilty' verdict surely?

I lost a baby 6 years ago, she was born alive but too soon and lived for three hours. After she died we sat in my hospital room (my partner, mum, sister and SIL) chatting through the night and we laughed till we cried. In the funeral car we were laughing at silly things. There's just something about the situation that it just happens.

So judge me if you will.

When my next baby was born I once sent Mum a text saying "What's the penalty for infanticide?" even having lost a baby of my own I still got frustrated with my eldest to the point I had to put her in her cot and walk out because I felt bad enough to do something.

OK I didn't research anything, I did know when that thought had gone too far and I had to walk away for a little bit. Maybe this guy did the same?

Judge me if you will.

Good post confuddled.

Maybe those internet searches were just a way of letting off steam? Who knows.

I'm just agreeing with Barbarianmum