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Osama bin Laden is DEAD?!

230 replies

CheerfulYank · 02/05/2011 04:09

?! Shock

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deemented · 02/05/2011 20:43

I think this quote is hugely appropriate right now...

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."
--Martin Luther King, Jr.

CatPower · 02/05/2011 20:46

Perfect quote, deemented.

Emmanana · 02/05/2011 21:02

I object to David Cam Moron congratulating the US on my behalf.
What has happened will not make the world a safer place.
The man needed to be found, and dealt with appropriately, but to revel in a sea of self congratulation and smugness, because one man has been killed, IMO is a tad misguided, and will, I fear, cause even more reactionary attacks.
But then again the US military are no strangers to doing exactly what they want. Google Genocide of the Native Cherokee Indians to see how many of the Indigenous American people were killed by the US Military up to as late as 1914.....

CheerfulYank · 02/05/2011 21:05

Yes, Emma , the Native American genocide was atrocious and a blight on our history. Does it make the almost 3,000 American citizens killed on September 11th less innocent, though?

It may not make the world safer, but when is "you have killed hundreds of thousands of people and you will pay for it no matter how long it takes to hunt you down," a bad message to spread?

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CheerfulYank · 02/05/2011 21:06

There would have been reactionary attacks no matter how it was dealt with.

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TwoIfBySea · 02/05/2011 21:07

Lessons terrorists can learn - you can run and you can hide but give us a decade and we'll find you!

World Hide and Seek Champion is the best one I've heard.

megapixels · 02/05/2011 21:15

Why aren't they releasing any pictures? The earlier one was said to be a fake. Seems quite convenient to dump him into the sea so no evidence of a body now too. Basically it's a question of just taking their word for it isn't it? Confused

CheerfulYank · 02/05/2011 21:22

Apparently they have photos and are deciding when/how to release them.

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EightiesChick · 02/05/2011 22:02

The US election isn't till November 2012, so almost a year and a half away. Frankly, if Obama was timing this as an election winner, he'd have held off for a bit longer. Some analysis I've read has already suggested that the boost he'll get from this will be negligible come election time.

I don't like to think of someone who takes pleasure in a human being's death, but there are a very small number of exceptions. Harold Shipman was one. Saddam Hussein another. Now the same is true of Bin Laden. People who deliberately cause the death of many others, and who enjoy inflicting suffering? No loss. The world's better off without OBL - a known and confessed terrorist.

This is a difficult one to play for the Americans re dealing with the body, burial, identification and so on. Basically, for some people nothing would be enough. They could put his body on display in a glass case and conduct the DNA testing live on TV and still people would say 'they're lying, we're being tricked here'. So the question is where to pitch it in order to provide reasonable prooof without being seen to be overly triumphalist and insensitive in doing so - and parading the body, releasing badly chosen photos, or delaying burial in a manner that disregards Islam's requirements for a swift interring of the body (within 24 hours IIRC?) would all be regarded as bad choices displomatically speaking.

This is now a chance to end a particular unahppy chapter of conflict and draw a line under US involvement in Afghanistan, etc. That potentially makes the world a safer place, or could do in the future. A for the increased threat - again, for people who are of that way of thinking, there will always be a reason to attack. It's just as likely that people will be put off fighting for what may now seem like a cause that's lost its momentum.

Conspiracy theory stuff: I do think, though, that this was the real reason behind the postponement of Will & Kate's honeymoon. I also think it's quite possible that the actual raid was timed to take place when global media attention was focused on the royal wedding. Given the opportunity, it makes sense.

nightcat · 02/05/2011 22:12

agree with you Eighties Chick on the royal connection, esp re the honeymoon

meditrina · 03/05/2011 00:08

I don't think it makes sense. Look at it from the US pov - you've been hunting him for years, you finally have good intelligence on a location he uses. He's got a history of moving around a lot, and could move on at any second. You know you can't keep your actions totally secret for long, though you've moved assets as close as you can without inadvertently alerting anyone who might tip him off. You just need to wait until the indication that he really is there. It comes. Now, are you going to wait a few more nights just to fit in with the news cycle? Quite a lot of senior US military/spooky types know about this, Wikileaks has just happened, if you decide to wait, and UBL moves on, you lose your chance. Would you risk it? Just for the press handling?

mathanxiety · 03/05/2011 04:40

Apparently it was a moonless night -- perhaps that was a factor? The cycle of the moon can be a factor in an operation that will be covert, jut as the tides and weather were factors in D Day planning.

EightiesChick · 03/05/2011 08:45

Some reports said the US had been pretty sure since February that it was actually him in the compound. So it that's accurate, they certainly held off at least for a month. Supposedly Obama authorised the raid the week before it happened. Interesting then that they chose that particular weekend to eventually go ahead. But I agree meditrina that it would be risky to wait. My guess is that they judged him unlikely to move now given that he seems to have been in the compound for some years - although of course if word had got out somehow then that would have ruined everything.

Collegemum38 · 03/05/2011 09:12

So in one weekend the "West" have have killed Gadaffis son and grandchildren and then killed OBL. Think we have probably pissed off hell of alot of very nutty people who have zero respect for human life!

Worrying www.ibtimes.com/articles/140067/20110502/osama-bin-laden-dead-will-al-qaeda-detonate-nuclear-bomb-now.htm

and

www.ndtv.com/article/world/nuclear-hellstorm-if-bin-laden-is-caught-or-killed-al-qaida-101330

Do you think this is true? How long have we got do you think?

IntergalacticHussy · 03/05/2011 14:19

How do we know he's dead? How do we know he ever existed? There's no body because he's been very quickly buried at sea before anyone had a chance to take a picture, in a world in which nearly everyone has at least a camera phone Hmm

The whole thing was highly questionable and his death is no exception. The rest of the Bin Laden family was flown out of the U.S the day after 9/11 so the CIA couldn't have wanted to find him that badly! He was just a very useful hate figure to use as an excuse to start very dodgy wars.

CheerfulYank · 03/05/2011 18:40

There are pictures intergalactic hussy .

Collegemum it is looking a bit doubtful as to whether or not Ghaddafi's son and gc actually died? I'm not sure. I hope not though, those poor innocent children.

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bobbysmum07 · 03/05/2011 22:54

If he was who they said he was, why would they kill him without interrogating him first?

mathanxiety · 04/05/2011 06:22

No need? They ransacked the compound and took computer hard drives, etc. Or maybe they have someone on the inside (of al Qaeda or in the Pakistani establishment -- a double agent) who is feeding them reliable information, and they didn't need bin Laden and any dubious info he would cough up under severe pressure.

The USA needed him in their hands, dead or alive, because they vowed to capture him, to take him dead or alive. They needed to do that to demonstrate that they are to be taken seriously. You cannot vow to hunt him down even if it takes forever, and then just forget about him.

CheerfulYank · 04/05/2011 06:29

And FWIW they could have just bombed the place so as to not risk any soldiers, but they didn't as there were other people besides bin Laden inside.

Would he have shown the same consideration?

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katkouta · 04/05/2011 08:54

The MLK quote is fake

I think the US government missed a big opportunity by executing him without putting him on trial. Conspiracy theories will now live on. This is not justice for all and he has died as a martyr as he wished.

Skifit · 04/05/2011 09:00

They wanted to take him out as quickly as poss, so as not to give his supporters any chance of defense. He didnt need a trial. Plus they DNA 'd him after shooting him and are 99.9% sure it was Bin Laden.
After what he did to the World Trade Centre and its people he deserves it.
He doesnt deserve to get to the Pearly Gates, he should be shovelling coal!!

katkouta · 04/05/2011 09:22

By law, he should only have been shot in defence, its not clear what happened yet but was only noted that he would not surrender,in which case he should have been taken alive. I am in no way defending him but I disagree that he did not need a trial, why the burial at sea without a post mortem as law requires?

Call me cynical but I find it all very hard to swallow that a man who was public enemy number one for all these years has disappeared without a trace and we are to believe all we are told.

There was and is more than one person behind what happened at the World Trade Centre, don't you think this would have been an opportunity to get to the bottom of it once and for all?

noddyholder · 04/05/2011 09:26

It is too late for this to have any real effect. If they had caught up with him within a year they would have thought We can't mess with the west but after 10 years during which time OBL has taken on iconic status it has just inflamed an already unstable relationship and made this wold even more dangerous. This has achieved nothing in terms of stopping al qaeda.

katkouta · 04/05/2011 09:46

Agree Noddy , but it will have an effect at the next elections. Wink

noddyholder · 04/05/2011 10:05

Well now that his daughter says he was captured alive and then shot the US will now be forced to release the actual footage of the raid and not just a photo. Pakistan are also a bit perturbed about an american mission without permission. It is going from bad to wose

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