Lady who killed her DS/Autistic son given 2yrs suspended.

[Flum]

He was 45 and she was sole carer. Apparently at the end of her tether. She gave him tranks and suffocated him. He used to beat himself and made himself blind in one eye.

She got 2yrs with 18 months suspended sentanc.e

very sad case.

currently in discussions about having nuchal fold scan with DH, he is for it and i am against as far too emotional about life to consider termination but this makes me think again i must say

What a great post Lynny, had to read it, read it again then sit and let the words really sink in. Think what you did with regard to the note in her diary is great and so happy it had the desired effect. Thank you for sharing.

Flum, it saddens me though that this story in the news would make you think twice on your decision. She didn't kill her son because he had Down's syndrome, she was pushed to the edge becasue of sevral things, DS just playing a smll part.
If you've made your decision not to have a nuchal or to not to terminate etc then stick with it, please don't let this story influence you in a negative way.

lynny70 that is an amazing post - you sound like you are a really wonderful mother who copes with a hell of a lot. I am glad you have at last got some well deserved help.
This news story is so sad....and the woman's husband died soon after the son too.
Sometimes the law is not an ass I suppose.

TC I think that the story will influence the way people think/behave. The "children with DS are so loving" line is one we hear a lot, and the experiences of this family are ones which aren't aired very often. I know he had other problems too, DS was just part of it, but it made me think a lot about what happens to our children when we're not around/not able to care for them for whatever reason, and with a child with SN I'm sure the whole "future" thing is even more complex/scary than those of us with NT children.

thanks for your post Lynny, v thought-provoking.

Yes, thinking of the furture for anyone is scary, add special needs to that and it is worse, the more severe the SN's the scarier, no doubting that.
But once again this woman didn't kill her son becaue he had Down's syndroime, there were loads of other factors involved, factors which would never be picked up by any scan in the world.
I think it's important to keep that in everyones minds before people start thinking 'ohhh God, DS can be so bad you could end of wanting to kill your own son'. It's not going to be DS alone that pushes you to those depths of despair.

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Lynny,

Thanks for your posts, you are right, many of us don't have any understanding of the difficulties that supposed 'care' can present.
My stepson is autistic (high-functioning, thankfully relatively easy to care for) and now lives in a dedicated centre for young adults with learning difficulties. But his mother complains that the centre isn't helping him because it has schedules when things happen, so Rob becomes more bound in his routines, more 'institutionalised' making times like Christmas and holidays more stressful for him, as they take him out of schedule.
But there isn't an alternative for him, as with your daughter, it is the best you can hope for.

And TC, I understand your comments about not being frightened by the prospect of DS or any other such disability. But the problem is that while ante-natal tests can tell you if some conditions exist, they can't tell you what form, or to what extent they will affect your child. It is natural to assume the worst. I know I would have done had my CVS test shown positive for Downs, and I know that I would have aborted.

davros...what you said about having to brush his teeth etc...well...on sunday (can't remember what it was now)...but i had to explain something (so simple etc etc...)...and i walked away...choked up- as i though 'i have to expain so much'.... it sometimes 'hits' me how many 'little' things i HAVE to do...that other NT parents don't.

since hearing this case on tv yesterday my mood has lowered... i am PETRIFIED of dying b4 my boys...and ironic really ...as i've been suicidel in the past...and ALL that has stopped me is the concern over how they'd cope being cared for by others...and i have a husband...but day to day...the boys look to me for everything.

to be depended on so much for so long must have 'killed' her ... i just feel so much for her... and believe this will not have been in vain... MENCAP were on tv this moring explaining what RESPITE is ...as it is basically unheard of.

I've just read about this in the paper. It's a shame the poor lady had no help whatsoever from her husband and three other grown-up children.

I think this story is really tragic and opens many questions. I do know of a mother who had a son with autism and finally got him into a residential school only for him to escape and run onto the railway track and was killed by a train. This was back in late seventies.
This was my brother-in law's nephew, even with help sometimes it is still tragic for a family to make a decision and then loose their son. larsxx

This is a really interesting and insightful thread. Thanks to the SN mums for your posts. I don't visit the SN threads as don't need to but this is very interesting.

TC thanks for your thoughts, I do agree with you in a way but I am thinking more of my DH and DD. If I am too emotional to consider termination of an early pregnancy then that is all very well, but it is not just me it would affect. I think I would feel guilty if there was a preventable problem and yet I did nothing. I think what if I die young and leave DH or worse still DD to have to care for a SN child. Its a lot to think about. I think the testing will be emotional and probably worrisome and potentially useless, but DH is very pro it and we are in this together.

My friend became a carer for her sister after her sister was knocked down and brain damaged at 19. Plenty of SN you can't test for. I doubt that ds2 or ds3 will be carers but they will have a brother who will be in residential care, No amount of testing would have picked that up. Which isn't to say don't test or don't terminate, but just a reminder that you can't guarantee anything in life.

I know that of course, I just think maybe I should do everything I can.

Flum, I see your point as I worry about my dd having to look after her sn brother, and I'm not trying to upset you because I know that these decisions are never easy. It's just that as I see it children are just as vulnerable to damage after they are born as before (illness or accident)and it's a chance all of us take when we decide to have children. The irony is that I refused to have an amnio because to me the thought of a child with downs was less frightening than the thought of a miscarriage (it was a miracle I got pregnant at all) yet I have ended up with a severely autistic child. I certainly didn't see that coming!

Anyway, I hope all goes well whatever you decide .

Bakabat, I must learn to type quicker!

Yeah everyones situation is difficult. I have found it very easy to get pregnant both times, I can imagine I would feel quite differently if it had been tougher.

I used to work with DS adults and found them lovely, but of course high maintenance.

My DH's opinion is of equal importance to mine in my opinion. He is very pro testing, I am undecided so that swings me towards it.

I don't doubt that tough things could still happen and I'm sure we would manage somehow but I guess I want to make our ride through life as easy as I can do....... SElfish of course, but selfish to an unborn child. I am not religious and don't see the foetus as a viable life yet so feel able to make such decisions.

Totally respect where you are all coming from too though.

meant everyones situation is different

very tragic tale
lynny your posts are moving

Flum, I totally agree with you and felt that way when I was pg the first time and had NO idea what looking after a child with SN is like. I certainly feel that way now I know and would have aborted DD if anything showed up that CAN be tested for. We can only test for certain things but I couldn't knowingly have a child with SN, esp after having DS. Its not the same as things happening after a child is born, or grows up and becomes a "bad 'un"! This is something you CAN know, you can't know all those other things inc much SN. I'm not remotely expecting anyone else to follow MY path if they don't want to and totally respect that but I also want to support someone who feels they probably DO want to test.

Don't usually stray this far away from Special Needs and Health, but glad I did.

Lynny, your first post made me cry and also that of Davros (hi Davros!). MrsF struck a chord when she said that she is petrified of dying before her boys. I only had this thought this morning when I found myself in a terrible road rage situation and realised later on that I could possibly have lost my life or been very injured.

I can't bear to think of my ds being looked after by anyone else - it would be very detrimental to him without his routine and me as we are so close.

That said, I can see why this poor woman was driven to her awful decision.

hi chocs.... i have to say what has been on my mind since this hit the news....

IF...and i say IF.... i was ever in her situation ...and i decided to do what she did....then i would kill myself too.

there...said it.......

this has struck such a chord with me....and i am 'lucky' as i have conversations with my boys...and they are 'toilet trained'...and they are able to walk unaided....etc.

However EVERY DAY there are many 'minor' incidents etc..that added together....make things harder than they'd be if the boys were not autistic...yet still all i hear from family is...."we all struggle with our kids...we all can't cope"

But when i say that when i see alex asleep in the morning...and i have to wake him for school...and i have to spend at least 10 minutes 'body brushing' him...to speed him getting out of bed...and then whilst he sleeps i sometimes sit there with tears rolling as i am tempted to not wake him...just leave him be....as i know that within 10 minutes of him getting up i will wish some awful things....the best of which is that i wish he were still asleep....the worst that he never woke up.

i hope by writing this i can get it out of my head....as when i told my mum this...she was HORRIFIED.

Mrs F - I don't think anyone else has the right to judge you. My children don't have SN and there are times when I experience anger and despair, so I'm sure SN children present different challenges. Sorry - I'm just rather clumsily trying to show support!

Mrs F thinking of you and not knowing what to say but just saying something.

Lynny-sad for you but you are special. No more I can say.

Have worked with a 5 yr old self harming-horrible, disgusting and scary. Pulling out her own teeth for whatever reason. So sad and scared, that's me, but how was she feeling? Laughing at us and doing it more. Not DS, autistic.

Have a dad with mental health problems, can't imagine having someone with loads of other "stuff" as well.

Can understand how this lady felt, but as someone mentioned, where were her family? I am defintely not saying that the others should have taken over, but help was needed. Understand totally about routine etc, hard choice to make, respite and hell when returning or no respite. I have four children and made the decision not to have any more as I am an older mum. Two reasons, nappies, night feeds etc and a grumpy me and the possibility of some kind of disability. I have to spread myself thinly between four of them, one more would make their time with me virtually non-existentand it puts such a committment/burden on them, (sorry for using "burden" can't think of a PC word") I work with SN kids and know how much of a total committment it is. I salute all you mums with SN kids, not saying you're saints or anything, but offer my respect.

I am sure that every day a thought crosses a mind that if only...

sending lovexxxx

coppertop hit the nail on the head

social services imo are shite
us mothers are supposed to get on unless we take drastic measures like lynny and others have done
that is when they will sit up and listen as they cant afford to keep children in care

I am grateful for a night a week palyscheme (2hrs)for me to get a break, also a couple of days in the school hols, gives me enough time to go shopping, pay bills etc normal mundane household stuff
the rest of the time after school we are housebound, unless babysitter is available but that doesnt happen often as people are scared to look after a child with sn.

do you ladies have any ideas how we can lobby the govt to change things

it can happen if we put our minds to it (my mum did re alder hey scandal)

and start pushing for a better future for parents and children affected by any type of sn