Buses repeatedly hitting pedestrians in London

[HollyRoseHill]

I am concerned about the rising number of buses hitting pedestrians in London.

Most recently in March, a 12-year-old dancer crossing the street near her home in south London was killed by a double-decker bus www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12794923; or the early morning October 2010 accident that killed and dragged for over a mile a medical student in Hampstead www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23884561-bus-driver-in-death-crash-case-i-didnt-know-that-id-hit-anyone.do; and this tragic story of a father crossing Oxford Street, during the Christmas shopping season of December 2009, who miraculously survived and is compaigning to bring public awareness to this issue www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/oxford_street_battle_by_dad_who_cheated_death_1_847571.

Is it a vehicle design flaw? Improper driver trainer? Why is CCTV footage disappearing? To whom are the bus companies responsible? How many people must die before a thorough investigation of this alarmingly frequent occurance is undertaken?

I realise that isn't the topic of the thread, sorry, it seemed relevant though.

I don't believe they help cut pollution, not here - most of the time they run to schedule with no one on them. What a waste of fuel.

"you slam on the breaks very very hard, which could easily kill or injure your passengers"

You are telling me that buses can't make emergency stops?

Am I hearing that right?

Because if that is right and bus drivers can't even make an attempt to stop if a person walks out in front them then but instead must deliberately run them down because otherwise people on board the bus would certainly die, then buses are too dangerous to be on the roads.

But that's not true is it?

You just want the bus driver to plough into the pedestrian to avoid the possibility of a few people upstairs breaking their limbs.

And THAT is basically to say the person on the road's life should be disregarded because they stepped onto the road. Or in other words, that they deserve to die.

I'm the only one saying those words, but that's what it means when you say that if someone steps out in front of a bus that a bus driver shouldn't even attempt to stop. Or that if someone dies on the road that it was obviously their fault, so only pedestrians killed on the pavement have anything to complain about.

Emergency stop when they're right in front of you? I'm going to take a wild guess and say you've never driven a bus.

Yes I do want to kill pedestrians, clearly I'm a homicidal maniac its notthat you're a stone cold loon

winter it sounds as though some need to re-read the highway code with particular reference to stopping distances.

Perhaps they don't drive.

Winter - do you know a bus driver who wouldn't try to brake if a pedestrian stepped out in front of them? Seriously? I've known a few and I can't believe any of them would just keep driving. They'd all slam on their brakes. It wouldn't necessarily stop them in time, but they'd definitely try. I find that claim quite bizarre and if I were a bus driver I'd be pretty offended someone would think I should drive like that.

There may be some careless bus drivers and if so that needs looking into.

But as a car driver (though not in London), over the past 10 or so years since I've been driving, I've noticed pedestrians getting a lot worse. They regularly simply stride out across the road in front of me without looking at all - not just kids, all ages. A bus is big and heavy so slower to stop, and of course more serious if it does hit someone. So it's not that surprising that there are some horrible accidents.

to Ponders: The report citde by "Professional" has the following:

"The annual collision rate per kilometre in the area remains much higher than on other roads in London, with 56.4 collisions per kilometre on Oxford Street and 27 per kilometre on Regent Street compared to 1.6 collisions per kilometre on ?all London roads?. Two thirds of collisions on Oxford Street involve vehicles hitting pedestrians. The Institute of Advanced Motorists calculates that there is an accident involving a bus in the Oxford Street, Regent Street and Bond Street area every 3.4 days. However, it is worth remembering that Oxford Street and Regent Street are two of the busiest streets in London. Nowhere else in the capital experiences the same volume of traffic and pedestrians in such close proximity."

We can argue with each over blame or think about altering the circumstances

I saw quite a few bus accidents when I lived in Battersea. Bizarre. Had always assumed bus drivers were quite careful - certainly were up North where I came from. But in Clapham and Battersea they did mad things. How on earth can a bus crash into a building right next to the bus station, with sufficient force to cause major structural damage? When the bus can only have been just pulling out? Had a few nightmare drivers who took corners at great speed, flinging little old ladies out of their seats onto the floor.

I was hit by a bus on oxford street. I was on the pavement and the wing mirror hit me on the head because the bus pulled in too sharply - the ambulance men who carted me off to A&E said it happens all the time.
The driver was prosecuted and found guilty.

Not all bus accidents are because people are wandering around in the roads!! A lot of London buses drive too fast and with little care for cyclists and pedestrians.

Yes these accidents were all tragic. I havn't read the links about the two of them but poor young Charlotte was running late for a dance class and ran actross the road in front of a bus.

I doubt there was anything the driver could do.

The problem really is with the design of central London. The roads are narrow and the volume of both people and vehicles is very high. Then everyone is stressed and in a hurry. So drivers are trying to make up on time and pedestrians are trying to get where they are going as fast as possible. Plus of course in places like Oxford Street there are also tons on tourists milling around.

The trouble is that none of these things are easy to resolve. The City of Westminster is trying to keep it's constituents happy and it's revenues up so it is interested in getting lots of shoppers into the area. Transport for London is charged with getting people from A to B, often both to and through the centre of London. Given the capacity of the Tube has been pretty much reached buses are the best option (and compared with cars they are a much safer form of transport). Obviously accidents are not good, and fatalities are terrible, but the numbers are actually going down, so I'm still not sure why the angst at this time.

Regarding Oxford Street I've always gone by the IKEA rule. Arrive early and leave before it gets too crowded. It is an incredibly busy street, and I suspect that if it was analysed by the rates of numbers passing through compared to the number hurt or killed he stats would look very different.

I should have added, no offence intended to those who drive buses or whose partners or husbands do.

I realise not all bus drivers are evil. Just around here a good few really do their best to be awkward. It's like they find people repulsive and want to make their lives as hard as possible...maybe that attitude is borne of a while in the driving seat and being treated badly by passengers, I don't know, but they seem to pick on my mum a lot (who is the least bothersome passenger, just sometimes carries a folding bicycle) and friends with pushchairs.

Buses are extremely loud and big and fucking red.

If you step in front of one then I am afraid it is a case of natural selection.

I was on a bus once, I was standing near the front and a woman pushed her pram (with baby) out into the path of the bus from between two cars. We all went flying as the driver braked as hard as he could. Then she had the cheek to yell at the bus driver. Stupid bint.

I was once almost hit by a bus, only the excellent driver managed to avoid what would have been a genuine accident in the snow. If he hadn't been going so carefully he would have slid right over DS1 and I. Instead he crushed the neighbour's jag. But nobody minded, not even the jag owner because everyone was fine.

I am sure there are crappy drivers, but on the whole the ones I have encountered have been excellent.

"Buses are extremely loud and big and fucking red.

If you step in front of one then I am afraid it is a case of natural selection."

They are not all loud, and FFS they are not all red.

I would like you to come and explain to the parents who lost their 16 year old daughter who stepped out in front of a bus that it's OK that she died because she was clearly genetically inferior.

For fucking SHAME to say something like that.

"If he hadn't been going so carefully he would have slid right over DS1 and I."

But by your logic if you child had been killed it would have been nature's way.

I do drive.

And I understand stopping distances.

But if a person came out in front of my car I would try to stop.

Not just plough into them (or in your case probably put your foot on the gas just to make absolutely sure).

Ok, just to make it even simpler...driving a bus is not the same as driving a car. If a pedestrian steps out in front of you, you have a slither of a second to weigh up how hard you can break without turning your bus over, think about how many passengers you have and how many standing, what obstacles are on each side of you, like crowds of people, cars full of people, other buses etc.

According to your logic, the only person important is the fucking eejit who chose to step in front of a bus. Your hyperbolic ridiculous ranting about people deserving to die makes you look like a loon, but you have failed entirely to appreciate all of the other people in the equation, focusing solely on one individual. Nobody deserves to die, you moron, but they aren't the only people in the situation.
Nice to know you're only bothered about pedestrians.

"If a pedestrian steps out in front of you, you have a slither of a second to weigh up how hard you can break without turning your bus over, think about how many passengers you have and how many standing, what obstacles are on each side of you, like crowds of people, cars full of people, other buses etc. "

Yeah, and if you can't do that you shouldn't be driving a bus.

That's why bus drivers get so much specialist training. To help them make those split second decisions.

Not to teach them to just plough the fuck on and kill anyone who happens to "get in their way".

I'm not just bothered about pedestrians, but I seem to be one of a few people on this thread who thinks pedestrians are human beings rather than human detritus to be mown down if they get in the way of traffic. And then we can all have a party about how the gene pool has been improved now that we've seen them off.

you're a loon. End of story.

Now excuse me while I go find some pedestrians to mow down, just for fun.

*BTW "so much specialist training? ha ha ha! good joke!

I work on Oxford Street and I am actually surprised that only 25 people are killed every year. Pedestrians are crazy here. They completely ignore the crossings and wander out in front of buses - often pushing a pram of course. I actually dread going out for lunch because it's not good for my nerves!

I work at a crossroads, near the big Primark, where NO ONE ever waits for the green man. They see the traffic stop one way, then step out, completely oblivious to the fact that buses and taxis are coming round the corner. I've seen quite a few people get hit and once saw the aftermath of a fatal accident, which was not nice.

I think they should bring back the Green Cross Code. No one seems to know how to cross the road any more. I even see people waiting patiently at pedestrian crossings, without pressing the button. Do they not know how they work?!

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned already as I haven't got time to plough through this whole thread, but the reason emergency stops aren't the same in a bus as in a car is that they aren't fitted with seatbelts - among other factors of course.

You're not putting your passengers at risk doing an emergency stop if they have seatbelts on, well not at immediate risk of injury caused by being thrown around within the vehicle - though of course there are other things such as what's behind you and could hit you, etc etc

on a bus there are a lot of people without restraints. Maybe seatbelts on buses would make it easier for drivers to make the decision as to whether or not to pull an emergency stop.

Last year I managed to save a boy from being hit by a bus. We were waiting at the crossing and the lights turned to a green man and the boy (aged about 10?) started to cross, he was quite short and so came below the height of the drivers window. The bus had been waiting (there was a queue of traffic) and when the cars on the other side of the crossing started moving he drove forward irrespective of the fact that his light was now red. He couldn't see the boy who was right in front of him. I screamed and gesticulated, he stopped and gave me a . The boy got over the road safely and went on his way, the bus driver looked oblivious and moved on. If I hadn't have been there that boy would be seriously injured or dead.

It makes my blood run cold to think of it TBH.

The other day as well I went and shouted at a bus driver who drove through a red light/green man. What are they thinking of?

I hadn't read the entire thread (big mistake) I'm a bit shocked to see that if that boy had been killed people would have put it down to "natural selection". That is just not on, seriously it isn't.

Everyone is a cunt end of.

I don't drive, I've seen stupid idiots walking out into roads without looking, I've seen stupid cunt drivers not stop at red lights, reverse onto main roads, park all over the damned place etc, cyclists are in a world of their own and couldn't give a fuck about anyone else out there.

There are many cunts in this world some of them walk, some peddle, some drive, fact of the matter is no one part of society is to blame except the cunts and they seem to be massively increasing in numbers across the board.

And Hybred cars are a menace, the code is to stop look and listen because cars move so bloody fast (and come flying out of side roads without looking) that you need to listen for approaching cars while you are crossing in some areas. and you can't expect the blind to look can you?.

I got hit by a car once, I was walking thru the pub car park next to my home to get to the footpath and the idiot reversed into me without looking, I almost got a white van in the face during a similar incident, I was crossing the road when a van that was parked up at the side of the road started reversing, I had to jump out the way fast, I gave the driver a bollocking, he looked at me in amazement, he was sitting there reading an A-Z.

Ryoko, I hope you feel somewhat relieved of your feelings...I feel better just reading that post! Nothing like a good old rant and you're quite right, everyone's a c*nt apart from that Turtle poster who messaged me today. And you. Of course.