Andrew Lansley - vote of no confidence from Nurses

[wideawakenurse]

here

Watching this with much interest.

Really hope the nursing unions get this right this time, and don't just roll over and take this.

98.7% -He is on the news now saying he still has the confidence of Nurses !

Hmm wonder why he didnt address RCN congress ?

Yes! Good for the nurses.

Now what they need to do is give the government their suggestions for an alternative plan - or have they done that? Big Society, if it means anything, should mean consulting people who are delivering the services, surely. This should be an opportunity for the LibDems, if they are at all interested in regaining the confidence of the public, to force the government back to the drawing board.

But what will AL do now? Carry on regardless? Or will he try to wriggle his way round this setback, offer the nurses a few minor concessions, retreat to lick his wounds then strike again in a few weeks' time?

Isn't the RCS basically a Union?

So the story is that another Union has come out against the Tory party?

The NHS employs over a million people, the RCN accepts membership from both the NHS and the private sector and yet manages a membership of 400,000 (and no it's not just nurses before anyone asks, "health care support workers" can join which is a really rather broad definition).

So the RCN vote says pretty much nothing about the actual opinion of all the nurses within the NHS.

I'm not saying that I support the reforms (I don't) but this story isn't about all nurses while it is about yet another Union being against the Tories.

BadgersPaws I think you mean RCN

I think you will find that the RCN says everything about the opinions of nurses in the NHS and beyond .

The RCN is the professional Union for Nurses but is way more than that : "The RCN represents Nurses and Nursing,promotes excellence in practice and shapes Healthpolicies"
Yes it also represents Healthcare support workers and Nursing students.

This is not just about the unions stamping their feet -its a massive blow to Andrew Lansley and the government-the opinion of the RCN has huge clout.

"I think you mean RCN"

Sorry, yes I did...

"I think you will find that the RCN says everything about the opinions of nurses in the NHS and beyond."

No, it says things about its members, which can't possibly number even 40% of the NHS. For comparison the NUT's membership is about 60% of all teachers, so by the same standards that should make it far more authoritative on teaching the the RCN is on NHS nursing. However when it attacks the Government people see it for what it is, a Union somewhat unsurprisingly attacking a Tory Government. This really isn't any different, but people are reacting as if it is.

"This is not just about the unions stamping their feet"

But this is a Union and it is stamping its feet.

"However when it attacks the Government people see it for what it is,a union somewhat unsurprisinglyattacking a Tory Government" -Really!?

The RCN is "The Voice" of Nurses in the UK -Nurses who have voted almost unanimously in a vote of no confidence in the Health Secretary.
This is unheard of in the past 30 years ,whatever you say this is a huge blow for Lansley and the Conservatives.

Just shows what poor judgement they have.... Lansley is the best qualified person to hold his position for two decades.

What do they want... let me guess...

• fewer hours
• higher pay
• no cuts

er... how's that possible with the mess Labour left us in??

Lansley is the best hope the NHS has had for decades.

The RCN should be ashamed of itself. I hope he doesn't go, but if he does the nurses will soon find out how foolish they have been...

The comment about the RCN not being the voice of all nurses in the UK is obviously true, but I do feel, as a nurse with many years experience, that the vote of no confidence in Andrew Lansley is unprecedented. I am a member of the RCN and the current political climate seems to have inspired a wave of action from the RCN. I've never been aware of so many emails asking for members to express their feelings about proposed changes to the NHS.

Cornflakemum, I think the nurses just want a better deal for the patients. They realise that the cuts and changes will make things worse for them. Maybe they do also want to save their jobs. Don't blame them for that. They're not asking for higher pay, though.

Cornflakemum - you're obviously in a better position than both nurses and doctor's groups to comment on changes to the NHS. Nurses, along with other health care workers have had a 2 year pay freeze so we know we won't get more pay. Nurses and doctors are expressing their concern at the proposed changes to commissioning NHS services.

Cornflake
Nurses are seeing the cuts to patient care and the Realeffect that this is having.
They are staying behind on shifts because they are scared to leave because not enough Nurses are available on the next shift.
They are putting in hours of unpaid time to ensure patients dont suffer.
None of this is about increasing wages and reducing hours.If there are cuts patients will suffer.
How do I know the above-because that is me -I am that Nurse.

I've always thought the most 'sensible' coalition NHS strategy was to 'ring fence' funding and then put their fingers in their ears and look away for the next 5 years. Oh, and by not changing anything they could continue to blame Labour for any problems - for a year or two, anyway....

Andrew Lansley obviously has other ideas. I bet Cameron wishes he hadn't listened to him. But maybe the fingers in ears strategy is still an option?

cornflake good to see youve been reading thw DM and are now spouting the same shite.
As a nurse i want cuts, but in the right places, lets get rid of the oodles of fat cat managers, not frontline staff and not affecting patient care.
I dont want fewer hours, ijust want to work my hours, not leave an hour late for no pay just to do my job properly.
And thirdly my pay is ok, im never going to be a millionaire but then neither are other people. Wht we object to is no increments (which were part of our contracts), below inflation or no pay rises, post freezing, no promotions etc etc.

I amglad for once that the RCN has stood up against the government, maybe thy will stop treating us like idiots

Actually cornflakemum you are wrong, the vote of no confidence is around the effect of the reforms on patient care and overall experience. Although I'm sure most nurses wouldn't mind being paid for the eight hours of unpaid work they do, on average, per week.

Rather than ashamed, I am proud to be an RCN member today. The RCN is much more than a union, by helping to shape care, nurse education and career pathways.

Echo what Mosschops has already said. Frontline nursing staff have been shat on from a great height for far too long.

Im glad that this has happened- maybe we might be taken seriously instead of being treated like clowns.

Totally agree mosschops30 and sarah. I have nursed under a Tory government in the past.

I was doing nights in A&E. I can clearly remember looking after old people, stuck on trollies for hours on end.

I remember having to apologise to relatives that we had no clean bed linen, as the ancillary linen room staff had been reduced by 50%.

I remember ward sisters having two manage more than one ward and never being able to keep on top of patient care and their staff.

I remember staying till after 11pm after being at work at 07.30 as there was a ban on all agency nurses and therefore no staff sickness would be covered.

I have given my everything to nursing, and made many a personal sacrifices. Even in my wedding pictures I look knackered, as I ended up working the day before to cover my ward!

So am I ashamed? Nah, not really!

to, not two!

Nurses are concerned about patient safety. When guidelines say that nurses should have a 1;5 patient ratio but they're looking after 10+ on a shift its a total joke. Did you see that undercover documentary the other night where a nurse was saying she didn't bother doing things like MRSA swabs as she didn't have the time. Shocking that nurses are being put in a position where they're having to choose between responding to a patients need for pain relief/obs, etc or doing infection control type stuff.

This is what the nurses are pissed off about. That and worrying about the privitisation of the NHS by stealth route that we seem to be heading down.

As a nurse i want cuts, but in the right places, lets get rid of the oodles of fat cat managers, not frontline staff and not affecting patient care.
I dont want fewer hours, ijust want to work my hours, not leave an hour late for no pay just to do my job properly.
And thirdly my pay is ok, im never going to be a millionaire but then neither are other people. Wht we object to is no increments (which were part of our contracts), below inflation or no pay rises, post freezing, no promotions etc etc.

Cuts-wise I agree with you. I'd like to see cuts in the right places, I want to keep the same number of front line staff like nurses.

BUT, if what you say is representative of members of RCN then you are pretty much shooting yourself in the foot by balloting for strike action not on the plans, or reduction in headcount but on the pay freeze.

In the current climate you will find the vast majority of people will have little sympathy with that alone given that the private sector has been going through this for years (I've not had a payrise for 3 years) and many public sector employees are also having pay frozen.

You also end up sounding like just another union who are only interested in feathering your own nests.

Wideawakenurse - your post about lack of linen rings a bell. We're now always running out of linen and scrubs due to cuts in linen room staff.

One of our Drs went ballistic the other day as there was an emergency operation and no clean scrubs in his size. He had to put on a dirty pair of scrubs and run into the operating theatre and do the op!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I strongly suspect that Langsley will check his bovvered bag and will find it empty.

Tiredemma ' "Frontline nursing staff have been shat on from a great height for far too long." - ah yes - that will be for the last 13 years under a Labour government then??

Am not a DM reader, but I did work for the NHS until last year, so know what this is all about.

It's just typical Union stuff really - everyone thinks the cuts/ changes necessary should apply to everyone EXCEPT themselves.... but strangely it can't work like that can it?

"The RCN is The Voice of Nurses in the UK"

Why?

It's a Union much like any other.

It has far less of a claim to be "the voice of Nurses in the UK" than the NUT has at claiming to be "the voice of Teachers in the UK". Most health workers in the NHS are not a member of this Union.

"Nurses who have voted almost unanimously in a vote of no confidence in the Health Secretary."

No they didn't.

A Union of 40,000 members, some in the NHS and some outside it, sent nearly 500 delegates to a conference and those delegates then voted to condemn the Government.

Claiming the the Nurses of the UK votes almost unanimously for this just gives those who will want want to demean this vote an easy chance to knock down those who argue in favour of it.

"This is unheard of in the past 30 years ,whatever you say this is a huge blow for Lansley and the Conservatives."

Unions have been savaging the Conservatives for years and this really isn't anything new. The right will can and will dismiss this as just another Union trying to preserve its power base and being reluctant about change.

And once again for the record I'm not in favour of these changes. But refusing to admit that this really is at it's heard just another Union knocking the Government plays into the hands of those who will argue against this. The way forward is to admit that yes this just another Union, no it's not "all" nurses and no it's not got some magic ability to speak for the NHS however it is important because of X, Y and Z.

I do have faith in the nurses on this one, that this vote of no confidence for Lansley, aka "grey haired manky codger," has been given because they basically care about what happens to patients.

It shouldn't even have come to this. The Govt. has no mandate from the electorate to undertake these massive changes to the N.H.S. so what do they think they're playing at?

But whatever cuts need to be made should not be on frontline staff whether that be nurses, domestics, ancillary staff etc. To see what happens when qualified nursing staff numbers are cut look at Stafford. Nurses are trained for 3 or 4 years to provide vital nursing care which ultimately impacts on so many other issues i.e. nutrition, length of hospital stay. Cuts in frontline staff will be counter productive.