Andrew Lansley - vote of no confidence from Nurses

[wideawakenurse]

here

Watching this with much interest.

Really hope the nursing unions get this right this time, and don't just roll over and take this.

Niceguy the vote today was in relation to NHS reform, not pay or conditions. Also, at the moment the discussions surrounding strike action are concentrated on working to rule, and for nursing staff to just work their contracted hours.

Oh goody, the private vs public sector argument.

My dh works in the private sector, in construction so another suffering industry.
Up until about 2 years ago he was having pay rises 3 times a year, endless nights out funded by work, xmas parties with partners all paid for, xmas bonus, petrol allowance, car allowance.

Since the recession began he as had to go without the xmas parties, pay rises and until this year this xmas bonus, but everything else has continued the same. Theyve got rid of a few disposable staff members but thats it. So dont tell me how hard it s in the private sector, because when you work in the public sector its like that all the time.

I have never had a xmas bonus
I have never had parties or nights out funded
I have never had my car paid for
I have never had my petrol paid for.

I have however 'enjoyed':
a yearly below inflation incremental increase
A decent pension (oh wait i wont have that either soon)

And i agree we are not just talking bout nurses here, more linen room staff so i have a clean gown to put on a patient every day. And better working conditions for domestic staff.

"It shouldn't even have come to this. The Govt. has no mandate from the electorate to undertake these massive changes to the N.H.S. so what do they think they're playing at?"

That's what puzzles me - why? Or at least why now? Lansley managed to get NHS funding ring fenced. And, if inflation stays low NHS spending will actually increase over the term of this government. He really didn't need to do any more.

Imo - without significant reform - the NHS will collapse soon enough. But not in the life of this government..... They should have waited for the next Labour government to continue the reform.

I completely support the nurses on this, and I hope it will affect the current crazy proposals. Votes of no confidence from both the RCN and BMA (doctors): AL is building quite an impressive list of no confidence. I agree a 'fingers in the ears and look away for 5 years' would have been a better policy.

Most NHS Trusts are like Stafford, just haven't been found out So many cut backs in departments and staff it's unbelievable. Well done the nurses.

Only one in eight nurses voted in this vote of confidence.

Probably would have been a similar outcome had more of them voted, but to put so much credence on a vote of one in eight is unfair, isn't it?

I'm sure I read some years ago that the then head of the RCN received a remuneration package of £250k. Is that true?

Interesting jackstarb. Where did this bill come from? Why is Cameron not hiding or taking any responsibility? I can't believe any minister would launch such a controversial reform without full PM backing in the first place but it looks like Lansley is up there with Clegg in terms of being a convenient whipping boy.

Sorry, 'why is Cameron not hiding and not...'

Muminlondon - is Cameron hiding? As I said earlier - I wonder if he regrets agreeing to Lansley's plans. They appear very high risk to me.

But then I think the NHS is a basket case (organisationally speaking) held together by some wonderful and dedicated staff. If the proposed changes aren't backed by the NHS staff - then his plans won't work. Better to wait until a real crisis is looming, unfortunately.

"Only one in eight nurses voted in this vote of confidence."

Where did you see this figure? It could only be 1 in 8 nurses if there are only 4000 nurses in the NHS, 500 delegates (not all of them nurses) voted in this.

I have seen that the Union has got 400,000 members and that, as said, 500 delegates were at the meeting. So that's 1 in 800 members of the Union who voted on this.

And consider that the the NHS employs over 1 million people, so that's 500 out of 1 million or 1 in 2000.

However "1 in 2000 NHS Employes have no confidence in Andrew Lansley" isn't much of a headline to run around shouting.

To be honest considering that the RCN is a Union what's more shocking is that any of them voted in favour of these proposals.

To oppose these changes we need to be careful what we run around saying or risk being shown up as ill informed by those who wish to see them driven through. A Union that cannot possibly represent more than 40% of the workers in the NHS, and in reality much less than that, is not the be all and end all. This is a beginning of gathering the required opposition, presenting this as the victory is the path to failure.

Jackstarb I think AL's changes are ideological. As I see it, he wanted to use the money to privatise the NHS and thus redistribute tax revenue into private hands (who will then support the Conservatives). He probably also sincerely believes (in the face of all evidence to the contrary from abroad)that private companies run for profit would provide a better service. The government also want rid of the responsibility of running the NHS. They want to shrink the state - which would, paradoxically, give them more power as they would obviously retain a lot of control over the private companies but wouldn't get blamed (or sued) when things go wrong.

Badgers You seem to feel that the RCN being a union is key to this. I agree that there is always an element of union v's government, but I cannot emphasis enough that the RCN is very different from any traditional union.

At the RCN congress, there will be workshops, lectures, debates, open information areas about all facets of patient care. Yes, there is degree of focus on the political agenda at the moment, but overall the congress is an opportunity for nurses from a variety of clinical backgrounds to be able to discuss and share practice and hopefully be able to shape and influence the patient experience and outcome.

It is a far cry from Bob Crow and 'everybody out' mentality.

Agree that there are some wonderful and dedicated staff jackstarb. What scares me silly is the idea that these reforms completely destroy the very best bits of the NHS - the hospitals, the consultants, the A&E departments etc. I've come across some terrible GPs (though there are lots of good ones) who I wouldn't trust with a boil on my bum let alone a multi-million pound budget.

"You seem to feel that the RCN being a union is key to this"

It is, and that's how the ring wing supporters of this will play this one, a left wing union resisting a right wing Government and trying to preserve their own power base and enforce their will onto an elected Government. To try and pretend that they're not a Union when they so obviously are is just going to shoot any argument in the foot. And arguing over whether they're a Union is the sort of fight that the Tories would love to get into right now because they'll win and it's a distraction from the real issues.

Fight the issues that matter and get into the debate that the right wing won't want to be having. Yes they're a union and yes they don't represent the majority of the workers in the NHS. But why are the Government doing this when they promised that they wouldn't and why don't they actually respond to the Union's statements.

And don't try and claim that this is anything other than a Union that covers less than 40% of the NHS and not the NHS, or even Nursing, speaking with a single voice.

But I am not denying the RCN is a union!

What I am pointing out to you is that, as a member for many years, there is more to the RCN than a traditional union. You only have to look at the website and browse some of the campaigns that they are supporting at the moment: Dignity in Care, Nutrition Now, and Maternal Morbidity.

Key to the RCN values is promoting excellence in practice, and this argument with the Government is about nurses feeling strongly that the reforms will have a negative impact on patient services. Nothing more or nothing less.

ooh look, more public sector workers being treated like shit by a Tory I mean coalition govt. Why didn't anyone mention this before the election when they got that landslide majority backing the clear manifesto commitment to restructure the NHS from the top down? Whaddya mean, they lied? Tories? Nick Clegg? Lied? Surely not.

BadgersPaws
I have been on every news website for every newspaper in the country- its being reported as "Nurses vote against NHS reforms" "Nurses in vote of no confidence in Health secretary"-

You are the only one banging on about unions.I didnt join the RCN because it was a union but for all the reasons others stated above -The RCN supports and educates its members
Whether you like it or not -It is the voice of nurses in the UK-show me any other organisation connected with Nursing that has dominated the headlines ,supported its members and been vocal in its one constant theme- that the RCN is passionate in its belief that good patient care is at the heart of nursing.
I will be wearing my RCN badge with pride.

Mellowfruitfulness:" I think AL's changes are ideological. As I see it, he wanted to use the money to privatise the NHS and thus redistribute tax revenue into private hands (who will then support the Conservatives). He probably also sincerely believes (in the face of all evidence to the contrary from abroad)that private companies run for profit would provide a better service. The government also want rid of the responsibility of running the NHS. They want to shrink the state - which would, paradoxically, give them more power as they would obviously retain a lot of control over the private companies but wouldn't get blamed (or sued) when things go wrong."

Andrew Lansley is/was being bunged money by the head of one of the biggest private healthcare providers to the N.H.S.:www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/6989408/Andrew-Lansley-bankrolled-by-private-healthcare-provider.html

Mellow - all politicians tend to act from ideology. I disagree that there is anything sinister about believing private companies can deliver public services more efficiently than the state does. It's a pretty widely held opinion.

Muminlondon - the GP budget control isn't the way I'd have gone. I think the French co-payment model would have improved efficiency and raised funds - but politically it would have been a 'no go'.

Well isnt that surprising Cate! AL being bankrolled by private healthcare providers? That explains everything..

People who have voted against these proposals:
The general population in the election.
The RCN representing nurses
The BMA representing doctors
Even the liberal democrats at their own conference!

Oh my giddy aunt! Thanks for the link, CateofCateHall. That really is shocking, don't you think? There's a lot that is sinister about AL trying to bring in reforms to the NHS just because he's in the pocket of private companies, isn't there, Jackstarb?

I thought the nurse interviewed on the beeb just now was interesting: she said that reforms had to benefit patients and nurses