Public Sector Cuts that will affect all

[Kirstie55]

I'm just wondering how many parents out there are aware of the cuts that Local Authorities are making to frontline Childrens Services and how these are going to affect our children? In Hull 1369 jobs are being cut 650+ of those are vital services in the CYPS- teen parents, connexions, surestart, day centres, youth work- the list goes on!

What are your thoughts?

The suggestion was that fewer bin collections would be a problem. If it were moved to every 3 weeks and that was benefiting the nation then we could deal with that, yes.

"Income tax goes up to 50%, which is among the highest in Europe. Add on top of that NI at around 11"... yes it's far too high although at your upper rate from April you pay 50% tax plus 2% NI, not 11% on sums over the threshold less some allowances etc. Single person allowance is going up but not for higher rate tax payers for example which is the first time we have had that complication - a different single person allowance.

We certainly need a lot more cuts and we have hardly begun to balance the books despite today's Budget.

I've lived places where rubbish disposal means you dig a hole in your garden and set fire to the contents every now and then.

After a while you backfill and start a new hole.

It was very self-reliant. There was very little state.

Wasn't marvellous in terms of capacity, pollution or efficient use of rubbish for electricity generation, but boy there was little state.

Balancing the national budget, and the revenues central government collect are not the key issue in cuts that Local Authorities are making to their services.

The only question there is the size of he block grant from central government to Local Authorities. It's been cut, but what services are then reduced or removed is squarely a question for the Local Authority, and it is important that councillors are held properly to account.

Hull is a Labour authority, presumably, so they will be going all out with a bleeding stumps strategy to try to magnify the effect of the cuts. The truth, of course, is that the cuts will only take them back to 2008 levels of funding or so.

I can't be bothered to research, but I am sure that Hull has at least some of the following:

• full-time paid trade union officials
• diversity co-ordinators
• propoganda sheets
• bloated Labour-style back office operations

All of which can safely be cut without any loss in public service delivery (inded, in the case of the trade union officials, an improvement in service).

Hull is not labour

Hull is lib dem

And actually it is the conservative local authorities in Yorkshire and Humber making the most redundancies

But you stick to your southern stereotypical views of the north and labour

If you had visited hull la you would have a very different view

ooh look, there's lfn, exemplifying what I said about people idiotically thinking that sacking a few diversity coordinators is going to make a material difference to the financial gap that LAs are facing.

They have to work out where the biggest costs are, which is why things like child benefit and tax credits have had to be hit because they affect so very many people that real savings can be made. Nominal savings in the salary of the Cabinet set an example but they don't really make an iota of difference.

I have just returned from a Children and Young People's meeting in Hull. ALL of C&YP services are being cut, if not axed completely; including Social Care and other Safeguarding agencies. These cuts are going to result in another Baby P and Victoria Climbie. We are going see (more) 15/16 year old children on our streets, as Social Care cannot cope as it is. All of the early intervention work has already been slashed. How can anyone think that these cuts will not affect them? Unless of course, you come from a wealthy background and are completely out of touch with the rest of the country?! (Like the public school boys currently 'running' this country!) Even if you are lucky enough to be able to afford to send your children to University, in Hull, the entire Connexions Service has been obliterated, without any transition plan, so they will receive no impartial careers guidance to make those choices. Apart from that, these job losses affect far more many women than men...thought this site was about sisterhood...but I suppose if you don't HAVE to work...

have just returned from a Children and Young People's meeting in Hull. ALL of C&YP services are being cut, if not axed completely; including Social Care and other Safeguarding agencies. These cuts are going to result in another Baby P and Victoria Climbie. We are going see (more) 15/16 year old children on our streets, as Social Care cannot cope as it is. All of the early intervention work has already been slashed. How can anyone think that these cuts will not affect them? Unless of course, you come from a wealthy background and are completely out of touch with the rest of the country?! (Like the public school boys currently 'running' this country!) Even if you are lucky enough to be able to afford to send your children to University, in Hull, the entire Connexions Service has been obliterated, without any transition plan, so they will receive no impartial careers guidance to make those choices. Apart from that, these job losses affect far more many women than men...thought this site was about sisterhood...but I suppose if you don't HAVE to work...

But Xenia, shouldn't those at the top of the political tree be leading by example. it's the gross inequalities and unfairness that strengthens division in society and leads to civil unrest.

I donb't know how horrendous the impact of these cuts will be and I've not noticed the job losses, bankruptcies and housing reposessions that marked the 1980s recession but maybe my little world has been protected so far.

Is the current doom and gloom being whipped up by the media? If not we are in for a very serious storm and we will all suffer.

"Is the current doom and gloom being whipped up by the media?" Not it's not. We are in a 'serious storm'. I think that we simply don't, as ordinary people, understand the magnitude of the economic crisis that is being wrestled with at the moment. In 1939 -45, the last time the population was asked to make big sacrifices, there was visible & dangerous evidence all around as to why. Now the danger is coming from balance sheets and, because it's less immediately apparent, we've none of quite got our heads around it. I mentioned earlier that the world changed in 2008 and it did, radically. Previous government spending plans were irresponsibly based on misplaced optimism, admittedly, but the scale of the crash drove a coach and horses through normality as well. Hoping to turn back the clock and retain the status quo is a non-starter.

We've got a long haul as a nation to get back to the affluence of 2007... at least the next 5 years.

Xenia is straying from the point. Things like CB and tax credit are functions of central government, this thread is about local government cuts.

It also doesn't help us hold our councils to account when local budgets are so opaque. The Telegraph and Hackney Council had a spat recently after The Telegraph published a piece about how Hackney was dramatising its spending predicament beyond the actuality (eg in November Hackney was publishing info about the need to cut £60m, by Feb the figures had settled at £41m. Guess which figure was the more prominently used in council published material). Most of the other issues raised in the Telegraph were explained by Hackney as "not comparing like with like" - and it was all complex in terms of what was rolled into what budget; over complex surely in terms of utility, and it did seem as if it can only make it much, much harder to hold councils to account for their finances. (Also notable that Hackney managed to spend more on taxis in December (when schools closed for much of the month, and other services closed for a smaller part) than in a regular month).

We are a Tory council & seeing similar cuts to Hull. Massive redundancies in Childrens services, looking about 40% staff majority at front line level.

crystal, I remember the earlier recessions too (I had to make over 100 applications for my first job etc) and in the mid 90s we sold two flats at 50% less than we'd paid. It may feel things aren't so bad now but that's just because for those of us with very big mortgage (which in my case is because of having to pay out on a divorce) as Lord Young said we haev never had it so good - current rates are picnic compared with the 8 and 12% I have paid in the past and we may get back to those levels.

Also the second wave, double dip or whatever you want to call it is going start feeding through - it was at Christams I think that a lot of the 3 month consulting over public sector redundancies was started so those will start to ahve an effect presumably next month as people lose their jobs particularly in areas of teh country where there is no real wealth creation or business and just people who leech off the state in state funded jobs.

Someone mentioned leading by example - that's being done with 52% tax/NI and the cabinet salary freeze or whatever they did and rule that no one gets appointed in the state sector on more than the prime minister earns without his sanction or whatever the rule is. There are so many peopel out of work in my view we could say no one in the public sector earns more than £50k a year and they all reapply for their old jobs. I really don't think they would then find it impossible to find competent people to run things. They might even give promotion to lower paid competent women.

I have read through all the comments and I'm quite concerned that people don't seem to see the value of services that will be lost and the severity of the cuts that are being made, let alone the impact that this is going to have in time.

I want my son to be able to pursue his ambitions (whatever they may be) and have stress free adolecent years- how will that be possible for kids who want to go to uni but are already saying at 15 that it will put them in too much debt so they aren't going to??? Whilst I feel that I can support my son in making important decisions about his future I would still like to know that there is a professional within the school who can advise him on the mass of information about colleges, courses, employment, money, etc etc- not going to happen if the government has their way!

That is just one area- what about the social workers and family support services- yes, whilst alot of these are invisible services; unless you have had input from them, they provide invaluable services. People are already over worked- do we really need another horrific child protection case to come to light as people can only do so much in a working day??? It will happen :(

kirstie Who advised you about a career path? I would imagine you got your information from teachers/parents/friends of your parents/books/tv/etc. I doubt you were spoonfed this information - so why do you think your son is incapable of finding out things? I'm guessing you have access to internet, did you know each and every college and university has their prospectus' online? I mean really - what do you want? Someone to tell your son how to use the internet?

Cuts need to be made. As others have said you might want to look at what bullshit your local council has been spending money on. Any shitty "modern art" 150k statues in your town centre type thing.

Alpine Pony- I was never really told anything at school, I made wrong decisions until I was emotionally intelligent enough to re think and put myself through Uni. Have a look on the internet at the websites available to help kids make choices- they cant make sense of them. I work in a school- half the kids think that they'll get £100 if they go 'on the dole', they dont know what apprenticeships are and they find it hard to make such decisions at 15. The emphasis is on gaining 5 A-C GCSES, careers education comes secondary.

I am using my son as an example as he is look to have a family that will support him anmd help him make decisions, and yes he is bright enough to make his own decisions and navigate the internet to help him do this. Do you really think that all children have that luxury??? Come on!

And yes, I agree cuts need to be made and yes my local council have wasted money- I dont see why the its the CYPS that are being affected first??? Next the NHS, Fire service, Police.....

"We've got a long haul as a nation to get back to the affluence of 2007... at least the next 5 years."

But even in the affluence of 2007 the Government still couldn't afford it's spending plans and had to borrow money to fund things. While other European nations spent good years of the 2000s either dramatically cutting their spending shortfall or actually running the country at a profit and saving up for a rainy day we were galloping ahead spending on the credit card to fund our lifestyle.

If we couldn't afford that lifestyle in the "affluence of 2007" what hope have we got of possibly maintaining it when everything takes a turn for the worse?

We are facing a serious crossroads here, we either need to shift to an American model where we have less public services but continue to pay the same amount of tax, or we shift to a European model where we accept that we need to pay more tax to build the country that we want.

Personally I hope we go the European way, but we need to at least have that conversation and realise that how this country has run it's finances for the last 50 years is just unsustainable.

Alpine - As a careers adviser (now redundant) I find many teenagers overwhelmed by the volume of careers information available on the internet and elsewhere. Lots of them google and end up on American careers websites getting inaccurate information. My job is (was!) to talk them through the actual options and help clear their heads. Many of them were hugely relieved and grateful for the support they got from me.

I am well informed, impartial, and young people can talk to me in confidence. Most teachers don't have time to keep up with developments in careers, and not all parents are helpful and supportive - some are absent or uninterested, or don't speak English or understand the education system, and some put an immense amount of pressure on their children to go in a certain direction.

We're not a major cost either - most of us cover at least three secondary schools or colleges in addition to working with the unemployed kids.

(And thanks to Kirstie for recognising the value of these services - it's good to be appreciated)

Parents and the teenagers themselves can look things up. If at 14 and 15 I could go to the library in search of that information why are some children so thick and non self starting they won't get on a bike (and i indeed cycled that journey) to look it up and if they don't surely they should just pay the price for it? We need more people thinking I am responsible for myself. No one will spoon feed me. I will get nowhere unless I kick start myself.

There is nothing to stop any state school settnig up the careers evenings private schools put on. I am sure private school parents like I am would go in to talk at those if the parents of teh state school pupils do not represent sufficient careers to cover a full spectrum. It would cost nothing. Teachers stay late of course and in our local state school the place is pretty empty by 3.15 and the private schools have late coaches coming home as late as 5.30 and beyond.

life was better when Xenia was small

Xenia- are you on this site as a joke??? mumsnet- for parents by parents and you're stating that some children are so thick and non self starting????

The point is- everyone has a right to professional, independent, impartial advice- not how to stay on at the private sixth form!!! Where I work, the teaacherss are here way into the night and if not they are working at home- you obviously have no idea.

In fact, I'm bemused, not even angry

Kirstie - it's true though. As unpalatable as it might be, not everyone has an IQ of 150, or even 130.