Public Sector Cuts that will affect all

[Kirstie55]

I'm just wondering how many parents out there are aware of the cuts that Local Authorities are making to frontline Childrens Services and how these are going to affect our children? In Hull 1369 jobs are being cut 650+ of those are vital services in the CYPS- teen parents, connexions, surestart, day centres, youth work- the list goes on!

What are your thoughts?

"What are your thoughts?"

Well something did have to be done.

The level of public spending to which we've become accustomed is utterly unsustainable given the amount of tax that we pay. That was true even in the "good" years before the crash when Government spending exceeded income.

So we had to either raise taxes or cut spending.

However I think that we all do now need to look into what our local Councils are cutting and where they're still spending our money. What sort of pay rises have local councillors been getting? Has there been a rise in the expense allowances? Do they spend our money printing "newspapers" telling us how great they are? Do they spend money on entertainment and parties for themselves?

And then compare that to what they're cutting.

I know, for example, that my old Council spent tens of thousands on an annual party but cancelled a major event for the public with the excuse of the "cuts" when the two events cost about the same.

They think that they can get away with that sort of thing. We need to remind them that they can't.

Badgerspaws, I'm amazed that any council would spend that amount on an annual party. Who is it for? When I worked in local government many moons ago there's no way we got anything like that. If we had any sort of celebration eg Christmas party, outing, meal, we had to pay for it ourselves

Cuts made by Local Authorities fall differently depending on where you live.

So more action at a local level is required - campaigning, involvement and holding to account, standing as a councillor if you can, definitely voting in local elections, telling your councillors what you want, getting local priorities heard and recognised.

On a national level, this could involve swopping lessons learned from local campaigns (to help future campaigns anywhere), spreading examples of good practice (and bad practice so it can be rooted out everywhere), and (like this post) raising awareness of looming issues and who needs to be tackled about them.

Not sure they'll affect us all. In fact the ones the OP quotes won't affect us as a family at all (teen son, never used any of the services mentiioned).

Cuts have to be made, and I'm not convinced that all the money which has been thrown into the pot during the Labour years (surestart centres used mainly by middle class parents for example) has been well spent.

"Badgerspaws, I'm amazed that any council would spend that amount on an annual party. Who is it for? When I worked in local government many moons ago there's no way we got anything like that."

It wasn't for the workers it was for the Councillors themselves.

The actual cost of the annual event, which someone got via a Freedom of Information request, was £30k. It's a black tie thing in a very very swish venue.

The annual public event which would have entertained tens of thousands of people would have cost about £37k.

To say any more than that gives rather too much away about where I live and trying to nail the local council over their cost cutting priorities (entertain themselves or entertain tens of thousands of the people that pay their wages) isn't the point of this post.

The point is that similar local level activism and awareness is required so that that kind of thing can't go on unchallenged.

SureStart has not been used mainly by middle class people - not round my way. It was been an essential resurce for loads of us.

My thoughts is that all the local service are valued and needed by someone, somewhere.... or they wouldn't be there. But, because there isn't as much tax revenue coming in, choices have to be made. Naturally, no-one wants their pet project to be the one for the chop but it's inevitable some will have to be disappointed. I don't think I use any of those frontline children's services you mention personally but I'm sure there will be other public services where I will notice if/when they are pared down.

Agree with Badgerspaws... this is the time to look closely at your local authorities total spending plans, ask your councillors searching questions and boot them out at local elections if they don't have the answers you like. But expecting life to carry on as if 2008 had never happened is unrealistic.

Im very pleased for you if you have not had to use the services- I didnt list them all- there are too many. The careers service- in light of the changes to EMA, University fees, Working Tax Credit... it is very likely that it will affect everybody! I have a teenage son and I am extremley worried about the support he will get, especially about making his choices in the future.

Lots of parents make good choices and support their children- probably the majority on here, as they are bothered enough to join this site, however, in a city where 1 in 5 children already live in poverty I feel that these are very worrying times.

"I didnt list them all- there are too many".... that's probably the root of the problem. As I said before, every service means something to somebody or it wouldn't be there. However, if money's tight and the choice is between respite care for the disabled, careers advice for teenagers, or a playgroup for toddlers, is any decision going to please everyone?

Chil1234- you are 100% right, the decision can't please everyone- yet in our City they are cutting all of the things you list. Maybe I'm a bit gullible but I think all the services you mention matter!

"But expecting life to carry on as if 2008 had never happened is unrealistic."

This is not the fault of the 2008 crash. Even before the crash the Government was spending more than it earned and couldn't, or wouldn't, make the books balance.

As I said above the level of public spending we've become accustomed to is just not sustainable on the level of taxation that we're used to paying. So something has got to give, we either more tax, or see the Government provide less services.

If you're concerned about the cuts in your area then get involved at a local level and understand where your money is going. Understand which areas your Council is somehow finding more money for and which it's cutting. Right now many Councils believe that they can cut away at public services as much as they like and it'll be the Government and not them that get the blame. Meanwhile the salary rises, extra expenses, expensive consultants, corporate boxes, nice parties and newspapers telling us how great they are keep on happening.

Local Councils are accountable, but only if we the people hold them to account and actually show a willingness to go and kick them out come voting time.

You may well think Surestart is a waste of money if you've never used it Where I live the service has been a life line to many, including socially disadvantaged families who could access free/heavily subsidised pre-school sessions which enable their children to do better when they begin school. The phrase 'I'm alright Jack' springs to mind...

SureStart isn't mainly used by middle class people. It's absolutely invaluable to everyone in the area where I live.

In our London borough we are losing careers advisers, educational psychologists and education welfare officers - the latter being cut from 19 to 1 with an expectation that schools deal with their truants themselves (with no money).

Working in a local authority, what has really been a concern to me though is the fact that the cuts have focused on frontline staff and NOT their managers!

It would be possible in many cases for these services to continue if the many layers of management were removed.

We protested strongly about top heavy management to our councillors, local MPs, the press, etc, but I think the general public have swallowed the message that cuts are needed and aren't looking closely at how those cuts are being made.

If you're asking if they will affect us, I don't think so. University fees which I will pay presumably may benefit me if when my sons come to go more students are put off so their chances will be increased because of the wise career choices I took in life and my hard work.

We certainly need cuts. Labour proposed 20% and the coalition 25% and in fact we may need a sight more than either of them have proposed. Sadly we don't seem to have radical party prepared to make the real scale of cuts we need.

I can't see how cuts won't affect you Xenia. I assume you benefit from street lighting, pavements, roads, bin collection, and licensing laws, just to name a few services provided by your local authority. Any or all of these may suffer through the cuts.

Just to be clear. If you added up all the "waste" that the newspapers and others like to bang on about in Local Authorities - 200k salaries for the CE, parties for councillors costing 37k, "non-jobs", etc etc... it would make one-tenth of fuck-all difference to LAs' ability to cope with the spending cut. Richmond spent £400m last year. Camden spends over £1bn. These organisations are facing gigantic cuts in income - Camden is planning an £82m reduction over 3 years! And of course, every LA depends primarily on central government for revenue - Council tax makes up 10% of revenue vs central funding worth 60%+. The rest comes from housing rent plus fees.

I'm not too worried about roads as the Government has proposed more funds not fewer for filling in pot holes. I am happy withg our fortnightly bin collection. I think masny of us will benefit hugely from cuts and the economty will get back on track and we will all be much better off for having the cuts. In other words the harder the cuts the better the nation may do which will filter through to most of our pockets and once things do pick up as ever more people will earn more pay more tax and the poor benefit from that too.

More cuts is the message from many mumsnetters. Don't stop and keep at it. We must cut back the frontiers of the state and make people much more self reliant. There is a huge long way to go to get out the cycle of dependence.

I know over 300 people being made redundant on 31st march and another 100 at lest on 31st august. Personally know- we made a list last week

I paid £26 k in tax and ni this year. Next year I will pay none. I will get £65 job seeks allowance for 6 months which will cost about £1600. Cutting jobs isn't as cost effective as it seems.

But slhilly there is significant waste in local authorities - I have seen it for myself. I abhor the government cuts, but the local authority I work for has not made the situation any better by hanging on to managers at the expense of the staff who actually provide the services.

That's right. An end to self-reliance. Let's write our Birth Certificates for ourselves. Let's light those streetlamps with hot air and community spirit. Let's stop funding such fripperies as food for old people who would otherwise starve, social workers to rescue children at risk of abuse, building controls to make sure idiots don't put up dangerous structures, schools in which to educate children, etc etc. All nonsense which we can live without.

Xenia, you do realise, yes, that LA funding doesn't actually pay for very much in the way of benefits? aka "the cycle of dependence"

Why don't you go through the list of activities that a council like Camden actually provides and give some specifics about which ones are not worth funding, and why?

The best bit is that the government sent us all on a course about being self employed where we were told that if we earnt the same but through our own company as we do now we would pay 10 k less tax!

I know there's significant waste in LAs. But it's not the waste that people think it is. I'm sure there are some managers who are useless, just as there are some frontline staff who are useless. And most processes are very very far from Lean. I've no doubt that commercial rigour would chop out 10 to 30% of the cost base. And I'm all for finding the clever way to introduce the right set of incentives. But dammit, it's hard, as commercial organisations recognise. Yet most critics appear to believe that cutting out waste is simple, and propose answers that are either insane because they involve just giving up on significant service provision "let's stop providing children's services" or are complete sideshows "don't pay CEs more than the prime minister's salary [and let's ignore the free housing, transport and food that means the PM actually has a package of 600k+]

I don't see how we could actually pay more tax. Income tax goes up to 50%, which is among the highest in Europe. Add on top of that NI at around 11%, plus VAT on most items at 20% ... where else is tax supposed to come from?

[angry whinge at most recent tax bill]

"I am happy withg our fortnightly bin collection"
but
"We must cut back the frontiers of the state and make people much more self reliant."

So... which?