NHS reforms- anyone else as disbelieving as I am?

[nowwearefour]

What on earth is going on here? Privatisation by stealth? I know what- let's take the focus off the patients and the healthcare and put it on re-organising ourselves.AGAIN. how brilliant. anyone care to help me see what the benefits are of this?

My GP surgery has a poster up outlining opposition to the reforms. It comes to something when NHS professionals are so despairing that they have to make that kind of outreach to clients.

Since the standard democratic process has so completely failed on this issue, I really hope that there will be some outbreak of protest of the sort associated with tuition fees. I would support any union action also.

chil...do you really think that "profits" will be invested back into technology and equipment ?

or will it be used to line the pockets of the private company owners, do we think ?

Well, the last Government did attempt to bring in commissioning led by GP consortia, so the general principle is not a Party political matter.

But the earlier attempt failed, generally because it was overly bureaucratic. I suppose removing PCTs is a way to reduce the bureaucracy, but I'm yet to be convinced that the proposed new methodology will actually work.

Not least because supply of flu vaccine this season was in the hands of GPs, and even allowing for the failures generating more comment than the practices which managed well, there were clearly surgeries which did not get it right. The comments on the news last night that there will be areas which will fail and go under .struck me as particularly worrying.

indeed onimo re areas failing- safety net taken away. how on earth can that work/ happen?

@AnyFucker.... I think it depends entirely on how the contracts are set up. Other companies providing national services... telecoms, utilities, etc... have profits regulated and are required to invest a certain amount back into the business.

I'm probably being really dim, but does this mean that private companies will also start training doctors?

Good point. The plan is probably for private companies to freeload off the training of doctors within NHS hospitals -- young graduates who have made it through the free marekt in university education.

I'm probably being really dim, but does this mean that private companies will also start training doctors?

Maybe yes, after all with PBL the new fashionable method, 18 year olds with three science A Levels are on the wards, laying hands on patients and training as if they were on a hairdressing course, no idea if it's better or worse but there's no reason why they couldn't do the same in a private hospital.

I think something needs to be done - the programme was on a while ago about Gerry whatever being a trouble shooter (In Rotherham hospoital - where the new head of it bought the house from my PIL) - who could see how things could be better organised to make the system more efficient and improved.

Am worried that these things get messed up and rushed through and sometimes the tough decisions are not made so the system is still a bit crappy in places. The NHS spending has boomed and not always for the better of patients.

I wonder what proportion of the MN membership will actually die as a result of these reforms, given that we are in one of the groups that use health services most heavily?

I'm so angry over this latest bullshit I can barely contain myself. Every time DC opens his trap I want to shove arsenic in it just to shut the fucker up.

Vile, absolutely vile. The ConDems are systematically destroying everything about this country and hoping that people are too stupid to notice, and even if they do, will buy the lines about it being necessary (when it isn't).

Bastards.

The private companies may well bid for work - but they won't take the difficult cases will they? They certainly don't at the moment as there is no profit in them. Those will be left to the NHS. So although each patient may be treated (at the moment) and the same money will be provided for each case, one will cost less to treat as the case is more straight forward, requiring less care. So who will look more efficient/cost effective? And who will end up with debts that won't be met my Government? And which hospitals will be deemed 'failing' and have to close? And how/why will the NHS make money/be able to work in a competitive market place set up like this?

And scrapping targets? WHY?? Although they aren't all good, these are the reason people in general get treated quickly now.

Arse. What gets me is why anyone is surprised.

Boffinmum its an arse. But if there are no targets, this won't be measured. So we won't know. Although those directly involved will.

The ConDems are systematically destroying everything about this country and hoping that people are too stupid to notice, and even if they do, will buy the lines about it being necessary (when it isn't).

So are you saying the deficit is not real ?

is there a way in which we can harness the power of mumsnet to do something about this? even if just raising public awareness that something v v bad is going on ?

nowwearefour how though?

Anybody who works in the NHS (as I do) will know that change is constantly being forced upon us to the extent that we can't actually focus on what we are meant to be doing - patient care! In mental health, services have been cut regularly and steadily over the 5 years I have worked (in 2 different trusts). Teams are constantly being dismantled, merged, shut down, re-structured, moved. There is always some consultation paper or other which requires travel, meetings, writing of responses...( general time wasting as the decision has already been made.) Added to this there are ever more audits to complete and regulations to comply with, which make our job harder.
Speaking for the people I know in the NHS we actually take pride in our work and like having happy patients and good outcomes. There are self-imposed changes which come about to improve patient care and value for money, through research and analysing feedback from patients. Morale is being dragged ever lower. There are not enough staff to cover sick leave, so appointments are cancelled. Wards get shut a year or two after they have had £6m spent on them. People need stability to be able to provide a good service and we are never left alone for 5 minutes to get on with it. Hands off, CON-DEMS!

I think a large part of the problem is a lack of understanding within the general public. Most people believe that GPs are NHS Workers and not the private contractors that they are, for example. This lack of understanding of the general structures of the NHS means that Lansley's guff is not really questioned

A GP practise being "not for profit" doesn't make it cheaper for the PCT/NHS. A private company will competetively bid for the contract from the PCT/NHS (undercutting the GP consortiums)and therefore pay the GP a little less. I suspect GPs are in no small part motivated by self-interest in their objections.

So long as healthcare remains free of charge and people get to see a qualified doctor, I really don't see the objection to private companies making our GP surgeries more efficient and accessible.

My GP surgery is utterly crap: it is a completely inefficient model run for the convenience of the GPs who work there.

Im so angry about this. Its wrong to give GP's the budget. WRONG.

My own GP asked me "what nuthouse do you work in?" when I told him I was a Psychiatric Nurse. That comment alone leads me to believe that anyone going to see him with MH issues will be fucked over when it comes to referring them for appropriate treatment.

Hands off the NHS you parasites

Swedes the problem is that private companies will only bid for the procedures that are profitable and within those only the patients that are profitable. So expensive/difficult stuff that has a relatively high risk will stay in the NHS together with any patient deemed not profitable by the private companies.

Giving GPs the choice to opt out of providing out of hours care for their patients was another of Labour's big mistakes.

worth reading and gives both sides of the argument

Hi swede my comments relate to the current stuff from DC and not previous issues I'm afraid
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They should privatise the whole shebang and have done.

Getting on this thread for later. You do wonder who will be doing the job of the GP when the GPs are all managing - IMO there will be a huge rise in supporting staff.

Chil - I'm feeling quite fragile today so if you're going to start having a go please don't.