Students Protests - University Fees

[EggFriedRice]

I absolutely applaud the protests by young students against the rise in university fees, why should they put up with the blatant lies by the Liberal Democrats, I voted for them, I believed what they told me during the run up to the election, now I feel betrayed, like so many other voters, how could they say one thing and then do the opposite? I witnessed today a demonstration by ordinary young people who will be affected by the increase in university fees, I witnessed the heavy police presence, the batons ready to charge, the police filming ordinary young people who have been betrayed, I witnessed the sad state of the UK,

If people wish "middle England" to back their cause they should probably not :

i) attack the Royal family
ii) beat up animals
iii) urinate over the Cenotaph

Down with Arts, up with Logic!

I agree with some statements Badgerpaws. But one day they will be the older generation as well and God alone knows what mistakes they will also make, so that arguement isnt even worth taking up. The bottom line is the UK has gotten lazy and used to taking too many things for granted. If the students are so clever why arent they clever enough to know that we have to get ourselves out of the shit or there wont be any future for them anyway. If I had to do it over I would accept paying for my degree, my job allows me to travel the world and I dont see other countries whining and complaining the way we do, they put their heads down and concentrate of working to make it better. After all their degree will enable them to get a better job, what a curse! If only they could open their eyes to reality for 5 seconds

Oh I'm not saying that the "pulling the ladder up behind us" argument means that we should continue funding as we used to be able to.

As you say Giddy there are now far more people wanting to go to University, things have changed.

What I was trying to get across is that I can understand there being resentment at us denying the younger generation the same support that we had, support that enabled us to get where we are today.

Resentment does not pay taxes it does not improve a society. why dont they rather use the energy they are using to riot to study harder and if that doest appeal to them why dont they use it to save the planet or the whales. Anything is better than acting like a bunch of animals and costing the government alot of money everyday to control their rioting. If one of my children was involved in this I would have serious issues and feel I terrible that they had in some way contributed to people getting hurt and the destruction of public property.

taxpayingmom- the problem is that people are finishing their degrees and there aren't better jobs out there for them... for some there aren't any jobs. Graduates are working in shops, in call centres, as low-level admin staff- you can see why they're getting outraged at having to pay 9k a year to end up in those positions!

We do need a strong HE sector- look at Denmark- over 75% of people have a university education, most of them to Masters level.

Their taxation starts at 50% though, so they can afford to pay for it as a nation.

I hope that the Universities/Colleges will expel any of their students that are found to have taken part in any of the violence. If I were to be caught taking part in violence and, therefore giving my employer a bad name, they would be well within their rights to sack me. The same should apply to the students.

swanker if the students end up in call centres/shops they won't be earning enough to pay the loans back so there won't be a problem.

The loan only becomes repayable when the student earns over £21k per year.

I heard someone on the radio say that the repayments for someone earning £25k per year would amount to about £30 per week. Hardly a back-breaking sum - you'd pay the same for a takeaway or a few drinks in the pub with friends.

Swanker can you imagine if our government had to put taxes up to 50%, now that would be a riot of note :) I think the UK is not sitting and staring reality in the face. We have a massive deficit, there is a job shortage. End result is its going to cost more. If our country was a business it would be liquidated! I think people should be spending more time trying to fix the problem not complaining about it. I agree with Cavemom they should expel those that were violent and make those that damaged property pay for it themselves. While they are at it they can all go clean up the enormous mess they left behind on the streets.

Sorry Cavemom did you maybe just imply they might have to give up their takeaways or beer Horror!!!!! Odd reality is you won't see them moaning about their BMW repayments oneday! Suppose one has to set priorities. Education VS a splashy lifestyle, tough choice

I don't understand the idea that "luck" has played any part in the way the education system has been constructed up to now by the government.

As I see it, it began as a tool for social mobility, so that those with the right aptitude for academic achievement could access the sort of education that would maximise their career potential, hopefully contributing to society in general both financially and culturally. It was seen by some as a way of breaking down the system of privilege that arose from the luck factor of being born into wealth.

It has since progressed into being both an "industry" (for want of a better word) in its own right (more students, more lecturers, more jobs) plus a way of keeping the young off the employment market while it is depressed for as long as possible, while (hopefully) new jobs are magicked into existence. Sorry, I meant created by sensible economic growth policies which may or may not be revealed to we lesser mortals at some point....(am trying very hard to avoid cynicism and emotional language here...)

I also don't understand the point of generating these loans if much of it cannot be expected to be repaid - investment is supposed to generate a reasonable return.

The argument may well be that if someone is earning £20,000 because they are educated to degree level they are not claiming benefits and therefore not being a drain on the state, however, due to the cost of living it may well be that top ups ARE required from the State coffers anyway.

It's all arse about face in my opinion.

Luck does not come into this. Some people have benefited from education policies created by various governments to do just that Some people have not, but that is to do with criteria set up by the government not pure luck.

You may say that those who have benefited "should" think or behave in certain ways reflecting their improved opportunities for the greater good, but you can't expect it because we are brought up to look after number one (and number one's chosen dependents) first and we all set different bars on how well we want or need to look after ourselves before we start spreading the love on an individual basis, hence the insurance of taxation to try and perpetuate the cycle of opportunity.

What will you do when they tell you to contribute £9000 for the NHS and tell you to contribute £9000 for schools? Will you just say, "yes the bankers got us into this mess, it's up to us to pay to get us out of it"?

I'm shocked at how little people think £30 a week is.

That's £120 a month!!!! That's a huge amount for us with 3 dc and a mortgage and dp earns more than £25 K. We can't afford takeaways or trips to the pub,lucky if we get a weekly bottle of wine to be frank.

For somebody on £25 it would be enormous.

"yes the bankers got us into this mess, it's up to us to pay to get us out of it"

I'll repeat myself because it doesn't seem to be getting through.

The bankers did not get us into this mess.

The Government spending far more than it earns since 2003 is what has caused this situation. The previous Conservative administration were doing exactly the same thing when they were in charge.

We've been living beyond our means for years, blaming the bankers is not only wrong but allows those responsible to get away with it.

'The bankers did not get us into this mess.'

Sounds like you have been taken in by the bankers. You probably think Fred the Shred is a national hero.

Should we erect a statue to Fred the Shred and his services to banking?

"Sounds like you have been taken in by the bankers. You probably think Fred the Shred is a national hero."

Of course not.

In the end the facts are that other than 1990 and 1998 to 2003 our Government has spent more than it's earned for every year since the mid 1970s.

That is the problem. We've been living beyond our means and getting used to it.

The bankers have caused problems but they're not responsible for that.

You appear to have been taken in by the politicians.

'In the end the facts are that other than 1990 and 1998 to 2003 our Government has spent more than it's earned for every year since the mid 1970s.'

That's right and it wasn't a problem then. We had a larger deficit when we built the NHS.

'You appear to have been taken in by the politicians.'
The politicians say the same as the bankers. Gordon Brown knighted Fred the Shred for his services to banking. I don't believe them when they tell us we can't afford to educate our young people without fees of £9000, when the rest of Europe can.

There are lots of students who protested peacefully.

There are lots of students who were not in London protesting because they are concerned about the way the protests have become.

That does not mean that we are all ignorant and selfish. Students have families too - if you have family who're disabled (lots of us do), family out of work, family who're elderly or carers - you have to know and care about the cuts affecting them too.

A lot of people I know are upset that the government has not taken the obviously necessary step of promising to reduce numbers of students taking degrees.

Incidentally, I first went to university in 2003, so my loan is the smallest kind. Loads of people my age and older, who're still students, feel just as passionately about this issue. It's not to do with us being selfish about ourselves, it's because we know exactly how hard it is, right now, to fund studying. We know why undergraduates drop out, and it is hugely frustrating to see ignorant people with a couldn't-care-less attitude getting the bare minimum of marks and scraping through to get a third, when many intelligent and dedicated people drop out because they need to get jobs and look after their families.

That is a reality of the current situation. It is common for students to drop out because a full-time job is a better bet for now. This discriminates against the poorer students, not the less intelligent or less committed. It is a complete waste of resources and money. Bringing in higher fees won't dissuade those who could afford to piss around before.

There were 16 year old girls interviewed on TV who didn't believe them either. They said we are being lied to. These young people are not stupod. They are the future of the country and they don't believe the bankers and politicians, unlike you.

It's just a means to control access for the elite. Before it was A levels as not everyone could do them but the masses got into education so now it's finance. Still a good deal for those at public school. One year for one terms school fees

"Yes the banking crisis tipped us over the edge"

I don't know if it did....

Out of the last 30 years you can count the number that we've actually lived within our means on one hand. Quite literally.

For every other year the Government has spent more than it's had coming in.

The banking crisis gave a convenient excuse for the main parties to try and get that under control without either of them having to admit that it was their spending policies that got us into this problem in the first place.

No the bankers aren't innocent and yes I wish we could have let them all go to the wall. But they're not to blame for the Government to all intents and purposes living off of credit cards since the 1970s.

Governments deregulated finance and allowed easy credit, which the banks wanted. They made money lending to people, just as they will make money from student loans, which the government is also facilitating.

bluecardi is right. The elite are laughing as they will have less competition, and they have even persuaded many of the ordinary people that it is all necessary. They like it that way, why educate the people? they might wake up and spot the lies?